How-To: Piro Flips with Video

[heli227]

How do you keep from losing altitude during piro flip?

I give it a little collective before each half to push it up when the disk is flat, but during the piro flip the heli falls a lot. How to keep it from falling?

[Steve Graham]

Can you flip, non piro, while holding the model in place?

Isolate the collective for that maneuver and focus on it. It is EXACTLY the same collective inputs required to piro flip.

Timing and degree of collective inputs are everything for holding piroflips in one spot, or moving them around for that matter.

[Wargamer]

Been working on this and the main challenge is that there's a lot more going on with piro flips than with simple flips. First problem when learning is that you're going fairly slowly. You're going to lose altitude until you can get the movements down so you can do them quickly. You also spend a lot of your focus on all the other stuff that's going on, which tends to cause a bit of a delayed reaction with the collective.

Breaking things into parts always helps. Working on just the first half of a half piro flip for an hour in the sim, I was able to eliminate a lot of the altitude loss. Definitely takes practice.

[Wargamer]

Awesome but brutal practice tool for piro flips once you start to get the hang of them at altitude...

In Heli-X hover training mode, with full control of all channels, start at the center of the bullseye with the heli just above eye level. The goal is to piro flip without hitting the ground or moving outside the bullseye. Start with just the first half of a half flip (so you end hovering inverted and tail in.) Gradually work up to doing both halves of a full one.

[bazsound]

What do u think if my half half piro flip

Piroflip Practice day 4 Half of Half a piro flip (2 min 14 sec)

Justbclicked today after a few hiurs prsctice tiday and yesterday.

The first 2 days were another broken down excersise for piroflips.

[lukeristau]

Should I be able to Pyro hover inverted before attempting full Pyro flip? I can pull off the half flip, but full is just to much. Any tips?

[canbarelyhover]

Originally Posted by lukeristau

Should I be able to Pyro hover inverted before attempting full Pyro flip? I can pull off the half flip, but full is just to much. Any tips?

definitely. learn to do half piro flips and stabilize in one spot while continuing the pirouette then do next half flip. upright, inverted, repeat.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[bazsound]

Originally Posted by Rªzª

Video demonstration. Fernando was nice enough to capture this on video. This is me flying my Logo 600 3D explaining piro flips.

I used your first video a few months ago to get half prio flips going, didnt realise there was a real life video further down.

I agree with others alot easier to see whats going on in real life, and it seems like its much easier to do in real life aswell!!!! I still havnt tried it yet IRL not confident enough with my 250 yet. though maybe with the 450 as its easier to fly.

I can do them OK now, so been trying to get full piroflips going when i get bored of practicing half piros and basic etc Just for the life of me cant get it yet. I have issues getting 1 full piro in a half flips.

Seems like i end up doing a full half piro flip, ie i end up back upright and the move looks really ugly

[bazsound]

I figured it out. Pretty much was 2 problems, timing and the size of the stir. i was going to big on the stir which would bring the heli back upright instead of ending inverted.

I tried again today and the first attempt landing me perfectly inverted and for kicks i thought well might as well try and piroflip out. it wasnt pretty but i made it out alive.

obviuolsy next attempts didnt go so well, but now its not so difficult as i thought. This will be one of my playtime things inbetween slow piro hovers.

[bazsound]

oh yeah im making quick progress!!!!!

[ame="https://youtu.be/kDZ4WV_gzsQ"]Piroflip practice - YouTube[/ame]

need to get on those inverted piro hovers though (still to do them)

[Steve Graham]

Originally Posted by bazsound

I figured it out. Pretty much was 2 problems, timing and the size of the stir. i was going to big on the stir which would bring the heli back upright instead of ending inverted.

I tried again today and the first attempt landing me perfectly inverted and for kicks i thought well might as well try and piroflip out. it wasnt pretty but i made it out alive.

obviuolsy next attempts didnt go so well, but now its not so difficult as i thought. This will be one of my playtime things inbetween slow piro hovers.

Good job. Over time as your 3D skills develop you will be able to vary the rate and size of the cyclic stir with respect to the rudder rate allowing you to do all kinds of interesting variations. A piro wobble is nothing more than fixing the collective, no up down flipping sweeps, and stirring the cyclic so fast that the model never inverts. It's coming back to level before it goes over.

[bazsound]

Originally Posted by Steve Graham

Good job. Over time as your 3D skills develop you will be able to vary the rate and size of the cyclic stir with respect to the rudder rate allowing you to do all kinds of interesting variations. A piro wobble is nothing more than fixing the collective, no up down flipping sweeps, and stirring the cyclic so fast that the model never inverts. It's coming back to level before it goes over.

Im still a long way from trying this IRL. half piro flips are close to being moved to the 450 and possibly 250. Just need to work a bit more through the tail in to 8s and funnels a little more.

ive learned things in a bit of a back to front way jumping straight to piro flips with hardly any inverted experienced and no piroetting hovers. alhtough its not really the best way it quickly tought me inverted orientations. Id give a wrong correctoin crash, ok dont go that way next time.

[bazsound]

Well i finally managed it!

An actial piro flip. ive been working on inverted hovers before moving onto inverted pirohovers. But i was able to succcessfull piroflip to inverted probably 50% of the time. I even managed to piroflip back out by just doing a blind stir ugly but progress.

I think this makes it alot easier to sit in the rigig boring practice sessions of spending 15 minutes slow piroette hover or 10 mintues in 1 orientation. with some really fun but still hard things to do in playtime

so i can already begin to do piroflips so now ill be doing the refining with the precurser esxersises


edit:

oh yeah really starting to get it and even done some piro to ivnerted tail ins (half the full piro flip) the oposite direction.

these are fun to play around with in the sim, there not actually that difficult once you get your head round what is going on, it does really show up how your orientations are. if you mess up and end up in a funny position.... eeeeek

[bazsound]

well ive finaly did half piro flips IRL on both a 250 and 450.

In the sim i can now do full piroflips although no where near ready for real life

[alexmanov]

Pyroflip Training n1 (3 min 2 sec)

Just can't get it to flip without stopping.Need advice....?

Piroflip Practice (1 min 18 sec)

[Steve Graham]

First of all you're starting the PF when the heli is still traveling laterally. Unless the goal is a traveling PF you need to get the heli parked in a hover before you begin.

Your using way too much collective. You've bought into, either consciously or more likely subconsciously, the idea that you need to begin a flip with a punch of collective. This is causing the heli to rise as the flip begins and also at the point of disc inversion from using too much negative. This also causes the heli to travel laterally frequently when your collective timing gets off just a bit. The larger unnecessary collective inputs are the more likely a small timing error will cause your PF's to travel unintentionally.

Try this experiment either in the sim or IRL. Take the heli up high, hover it, begin doing continuous PF's and use mid-stick or zero collective. None at all. Just let the heli fall. Note how slowly the heli actually falls during this time. Do this several times in a row to see this effect. Now do the same thing but begin adding just the tiniest amount of collective sweeps up and down. Try and get your timing so the sweeps peak positive at disc level upright and peak negative at the moment of disc level inverted. If the heli is still traveling laterally during your PF's it is an indication that you are not hitting zero collective when the disc is in knife edge. There are four key points in your collective sweeps during any full 360 degree flip. Max positive/negative when the disc is level and zero at the two knife edge points. The sweeps should be smooth sinusoidal constant frequency inputs while at the same time hitting those four key points accurately. Not easy to do at all but worth shooting for.

I'm also seeing large variations in your cyclic and rudder timing. You are throwing the heli into knife edge then pausing there while you spin the tail a bit then coming off the rudder and continuing the flip. I actually do this at times but it is a conscious choice to vary the move. A pure piro flip should have constant timing on all axis. The rudder, collective sweeps and rate of rotation on the cyclic stick, the stir, should be constant. This is an area where freezing the heli in position on the sim removes one axis, the collective sweeps, from the equation allowing you to focus only on the timing relationships between rudder and cyclic.

[alexmanov]

Thank you Steve, great advice....
Other thing i notice is that in all videos they steer the ail-ele stick.Mine is like up and down, up and down.

[rcheliman039]

Thanks for all this, my dudes

[joecass2]

How do you get them to stay in one spot? I keep getting blown around the sky.

[nc60865]

its late but getting progress, thanks for the instructions.