Is it me or the bird?

[Alien's_Wraith]

I'm relatively new to the hobby. I've mastered the Blade mcx2 which I know isn't exactly a feat of rc aviation but I'm ready to move forward and I'm having some trouble.

A few months ago my local hobby shop sold me the blade MCP X. I realized right away that this was too much helicopter for me. They sold me the bind and fly version and threw in a used DX4 radio. I tried to fly the helicopter several times and I'm not sure if it was me or the helicopter/radio combo but I cannot keep this machine under control. That resulted in several crashes and now it's basically in pieces. Lesson learned, maybe…

I know at this point many of you are going to suggest that I invest in a better radio that has an expo option. Unfortunately, I am not willing to invest that much money in a radio until I know that I'm going to be able to successfully fly fixed pitch and collective pitch helicopters. If I can become a reasonably skilled pilot with the provided radios, I would be happy to upgrade at some point to something like a DX6.

So the other day I bought a used but like new blade MSR X. This is a ready to fly version with the transmitter. I brought it to my job where there is a gymnasium and attempted to fly. I was able to hover a couple of times but for all intents and purposes, I failed miserably at successful flight. Every time I gave the slightest stick input, the helicopter would just zoom off in a random direction and crash.

Basically, I'm having the same problem I was having with the MCP X. I can get it off the ground but it starts to drift in any given direction and I simply can't recover and maintain controlled flight.

I have watched videos of people flying these helicopters indoors with about as much precision as the MCX2 coaxial helicopter that I've logged so many hours on. I understand that there is a learning curve but is it me or is something not right with these helicopters I've purchased?

It seems to me that the MSR with a fly bar would have been the next logical step up but that model is discontinued and it doesn't appear that anything is out there to fill that void. I know a lot of people go to the 120 SR but I am trying to stay in the micro world because most of my time spent flying will be indoors.

So with all that said, can anyone tell me what the deal is? Should I be able to hover and control these machines with some precision? I love being able to fly the MCX2 around my living room and office with such precision that I can land it on any given table or shelf. I was hoping for similar precision in a non-coaxial type helicopter. At this point, I feel like I'm just tossing money out the window...

What do you all think?

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by Alien's_Wraith

I'm relatively new to the hobby.
...
A few months ago my local hobby shop sold me the blade MCP X. .... and threw in a used DX4 radio.....That resulted in several crashes and now it's basically in pieces. Lesson learned, maybe…

I know at this point many of you are going to suggest that I invest in a better radio that has an expo option. .... If I can become a reasonably skilled pilot with the provided radios, I would be happy to upgrade at some point to something like a DX6.

So the other day I bought a used but like new blade MSR X. .... Every time I gave the slightest stick input, the helicopter would just zoom off in a random direction and crash.

Basically, I'm having the same problem I was having with the MCP X. I can get it off the ground but it starts to drift in any given direction and I simply can't recover and maintain controlled flight.

... is it me or is something not right with these helicopters I've purchased?

... can anyone tell me what the deal is? Should I be able to hover and control these machines with some precision? I love being able to fly the MCX2 around my living room and office with such precision that I can land it on any given table or shelf. I was hoping for similar precision in a non-coaxial type helicopter. At this point, I feel like I'm just tossing money out the window...

What do you all think?

It is both. Your current skill level and the equipment.

1) No mention of a sim anywhere in the post. Although not as much fun as the real helis, it will help 1000 fold with flying skills (if used correctly). When you get a sim, have a look at (From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months). It's basically how I got from just being able tail-in hover a nano to flying a larger heli with full confidence.

2) Micro CP (mCPX, nano cpx, etc...) are notoriously twitchy. They need to be to be that size and fly. We can dial down size, but not gravity.

3) Small helis develop problems. ie. If the main gear on your mCPX or mSRX slips down the shaft they become nearly uncontrollable. Unless you know what to look for, micros can be hard to repair properly so they fly stable.

4) mCX2 auto-corrects. (ie. let go of the stick, they stay where they are). This means you are working with a velocity vector (go this way at that speed, when I stop pushing slow down). mSRX, mCPX and nano do not. They maintain last commanded tilt which is an acceleration vector (against gravity with a movement component). ie. When I stop pushing, continue to accelerate in your last direction. Its the marble in a bowl, vs marble on a bowl problem. (http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/are-r...rd-to-fly.html).

5) If you are determined to persist, get a DX6 or better TX. If you give up, you can sell it and recoup a lot of money on this as TX's don't crash (unless you throw or drop them). A better, programmable TX makes the world of difference.

6) To get used to orientations in flight, consider a micro quad (flown in agility mode - non-self level mode). They are durable (crash well). They are twitchy (like your mCPX and mSRX). They teach you control. An nano qx is <$100 and can be switched in and out of agility mid-flight to help you learn.

Hope this all helps.

[gitbse]

What he said. I would hate to say something like "welcome to helicopters," but .. welcome to helicopters.
Unfortunately they are not easy.

However, as long as I've been in this hobby, including the two different stints at hobby shops, I strongly agree that decent equipment makes an entire world of difference. A programmable quality TX can turn an unflyable machine into your favorite hobby.

[stevolution]

Dont get to hung up on how other people can fly the same heli that you are trying to fly at your current level of skill. Every learns at different speeds and has been at it for different amounts of times. This is why "how long have you been flying has no merit"

Pilot 1 - flying for three years once a week

Pilot 2 - Flying for 1 year every day

Pilot 3 - Flying for 2 years once a week

Its all about stick time.

A sim is a must especially when first learning the basics. Once you can master a hover in the sim then i would definitely recommend getting yourself a good programmable transmitter.

Good luck and stick with it bud.

[learnedthehardway]

+1 on the better tm makes a world of difference but not a must for micros. It's just the steps of flying helis and it went exactly the same for me. I tried to go from a coax to a cp, which can be done but i got a 450 off cl from another noob so there were more factors at work. Got a fixed pitch which felt really fast and i crashed alot at for a while. Same thing when i stepped back up to a cp, seemed fast, lots of crashing and felt like a big jump going from a 120sr to an mcpx. Took determination and lots of practice but I got it. I still have a ton to learn the knowledge involved in this hobby is a never ending learning process filled with frustration and tiny sweet victories. The harder fought the step is, the greater the satisfaction when u finally do get it. I did it with micros and no sim. Get a solid cf tailboom, master throttle hold and go nuts over some lush grass. I mastered my 4ch coax in nothing flat, every step since has been a lil or lot harder than the last. Persistence, patience, helifreak and instructional videos..

[learnedthehardway]

A larger heli does seem like slow motion compared to a micro and they are alot more precise in their movements. A sim to 450 is possible but might be intimidating and cause mistakes. I think I could have made the switch from airhog to 450, once I stopped crashing and started reading I learned it was the loose balls on my training gear causing vibrations that made the heli go berserk a few seconds after take off. Since you're not interested in buying a better tm, im guessing you don't want to buy a sim or a 450 either. Fly outside over tall grass to keep breakage to a minimum and practice with what you have..cheapest route
Anyone can drive an rc truck, the heli club is alot more exclusive. Stick with it

[Kap'n Krunch]

hand the heli and tx to someone that has the experience they should be tell you rt away
if its the heli

also consider a tx where you can tame it

[LoveToFly1]

another vote for a good TX. that will make that heli 100x more controllable.

another vote for a Sim also....

stick time, that is it bro. and stick time on the sim usually IMO correlates to about half the stick time in real life, bc there is no "pucker" factor on the sim, so it doesnt matter as much. i am lucky. i work next to a field i can fly at. i get 7 or more flights a day in, i am very lucky and spoiled too...lol

[Mooncatt]

Originally Posted by Alien's_Wraith

A few months ago my local hobby shop sold me the blade MCP X. I realized right away that this was too much helicopter for me. They sold me the bind and fly version and threw in a used DX4 radio. I tried to fly the helicopter several times and I'm not sure if it was me or the helicopter/radio combo but I cannot keep this machine under control. That resulted in several crashes and now it's basically in pieces. Lesson learned, maybe…

I know you didn't want suggestions of a better radio, but if you want to fly the mCP X, I think it's not only recommended, but required. Yours is a 4 channel, but CP helies require a 6+ channel radio. I've never tried a CP with only a 4 channel radio, but I'm surprised it even got off the ground at all. Outside of that, being able to dial in better expo has made even my mSR a lot more fun and easier to fly while learning. The sim suggestions are also a top priority.

Oh, and I'd never step foot into that hobby shop again if they were willing to sell you that combo and expected you to be successful. Sounds like they just needed to get rid of a radio and figured you an easy target because you were new.

[gstoneberg]

The RTF mcpx (and nano) helicopters came standard with the dx4e. The 3n1 boards on those helis are specifically designed to be able to work with the 4 channel radio. You have to bind correctly to enable their use (and conversely you have to bind correctly to enable a computer radio as well). Having said that, it was replacing the dx4e with the dx6i on my mcpx setup that started me towards learning to fly CP. You just cannot adjust the dx4e enough to make the heli newbie ready. The lack of expo and D/R adjustments make it a terrible radio for the newcomer. The only bright side to the dx4e for me is it gave me a transmitter module to remove and cobble into my Taranis radio. So add me to the group suggesting a better radio.

[Mooncatt]

The Blade website only shows the BNF BL version now, which lists a 6 or more channel transmitter being required. Perhaps your right about being able to accept the 4e but I was thinking the old RTF versions used a 6i like the other RTF CP offerings I've seen from them.

In either case, if the OP isn't interested in a new transmitter, there's usually some good deals on used ones in the electronics for sale section here.

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=697643

DX6i for $100 posted just about an hour ago, for example. I also saw some more advanced Spektrum radios too, which you should consider if you think you'll spend any time in the hobby. I personally skipped the 6i (which is entry level) and went with a DX8 that I bought here. Got a nice deal and it works great. Plus if you buy it used and decide it's not for you, you'll recoup more of your money reselling it again than if you bought it brand new.

[learnedthehardway]

I don't know about the BL, or using a 4e, but a 5e works fine for a nano or v2. There's no tail servo so only a 5ch is required with them and i assume the same goes for a bl. 4e does seem fishy though, does it even have an IU mode? How can it control pitch with 4ch?? I guess if there's no IU it just does pitch and throttle together but that just doesn't seem right to me...idk

[learnedthehardway]

Does the 4e have a d/r switch? I learned on a mcpx v2 and a 5e wich does have one but i never used it. Just go outside over grass and practice. Very slight stick movements, any direction you make it go you have to correct a little in the opposite direction or it will just keep going whatever way it's heading.

[gstoneberg]

Yes, the 4e has a rate switch, but it's on the right side instead of where I'm used to it on the left. Below is a link to the old e-flight site describing the RTF mcpx setup. Here's the verbage about the transmitter.

The Ready to Fly helicopter comes with the DX4e. The helicopters' software has been designed to be used with the DX4e, DX5e, DX6i, DX7 and DX8 transmitters, while allowing commonly used collective pitch functionality such as throttle hold or stunt mode.

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...#quickFeatures

The reason the dx4e could be used with the mcpx and the nano is that the software on the 3n1 was customized to allow it. Where you held the rudder during bind determined whether the optional software to work with the dx4e/dx5e is enabled or not.

[Raptorapture]

I flew the mCPX with the RTF included 4 channel radio. It was not easy to control. Flew indoors and was not able to use it to practice orientation without a lot of furniture or TH intervention.

Decided it wasn't for me.

Forward a year, I decided to try the experiment again, this time for inverted orientation. So I got a nano QX 3D and a 9 channel Spectrum radio. Haven't managed to hover inverted, brain always thinks it's upright due to lack of tail and chameleon canopy But great tool for upright orientation training. Played with D/R and expo to help with twitchiness, although I'm not into much of either despite flying thumbs.

Two suggestions: toss 4 channel Tx and use TH and bed for landing and saving

[Andy Sitton]

Sounds like the progression we all go through, regardless of the pace. I'm just to the point I can fly up and down the runway without the GPS (Naza H), do standard piros and an occasional flip; and this has taken 3 years. Some sage tips I have taken heed of: practice on the SIM, get a good quality TX and size really does matter (I'm no longer afraid of a 450 and love my 550 and 600).

[Darren@Oz]

from one learner to another

I had the same problems with the MCPX, even with tamed down settings on a DX6i. I'd also spent considerable time on the Phoenix Sim. I could fly the heli on the Sim, but unfortunately it wouldn't translate to the real thing.

I only had the outdoors to fly, so had all the breezes (as gentle as they might have been) to contend with. I had the same issue. As soon as it would start drifting, I lost control. It seemed to just 'see saw' from one direction to another, and eventually take off at a fair rate of knots in a direction, after which I would panic and ditch it hard into the ground.

Fortunately I found some assistance and guidance from an experienced R/C pilot who gave me some mentoring. He took me off the MCPX and had me fly a nano-quad. The quad was a lot more stable, so I could work on keeping it still. It took a few shots, but it wasn't long before I could maintain a steady sort of hover.

A few days later I had another go at the MCPX and it all clicked..
I don't know if this is good advice or not (I'm still very much a learner), but this is something that works for me. I found I was constantly chasing the heli. I always read to be gentle with the controls. So if the heli drifted sideways, I would slowly pull on the stick in an effort to correct it. I had some expo dialled in, so the reaction was somewhat delayed which didn't help. But I would gradually keep pulling the stick the opposite direction until it started coming back. Problem is, rather than settle into a hover, it would then start coming back the direction I was pulling the stick. So I would start gradually leaning on the stick in the opposite direction and it would all start over again.

After some time with the quad, I developed a technique that worked for me. Instead of gradually leaning on the stick to correct, I would make small 'nibbles' with the stick. So I move the stick reasonably quick, but very slight in the direction I want to correct. Then release it back to centre. If I need more I repeat the process (usually the frequency is a couple of times a second depending on how much correction I need). As soon as the heli started to return to a neutral position, I'd reduce or stop the corrections and wait to see where it was going to drift next. Eventually it starts to become instinct - as soon as it starts to move, a couple of small nibbles with the stick and bring it back - re-assess.
I relate it to precision manoeuvring of a boat. You can't hit the brakes on a boat, if the boat is drifting backwards, you need to tap the throttle in a forward direction to maintain position. Stay on the throttle too long and the boat will start to drift forward, in which case you need to tap reverse momentarily to stop the forward motion.

And when you do unfortunately crash, best advice I was ever given is USE THE THROTTLE HOLD!! As soon as you think it's going to go pear shaped, don't pull back on the throttle! I grew up on R/C cars where you pulled back the throttle and braked as soon as you got into trouble. This is the worst thing you can do with a heli as you'll just drive that poor heli into the ground and break things. It's instinct, but don't do it! Keep the collective/throttle at a neutral sort of position and flick the throttle hold switch. When the heli comes down, there will be no power to the rotor, and if you don't pull back on the throttle/collective stick, you should hopefully have some positive pitch on the blades so it doesn't drive the heli into the ground. It should come down steady, which will significantly reduce or eliminate damage. Every crash I used to break something on my MCPX, now the most I have done is take a few chunks out of the blades.

Not sure if that's the right way, but it did wonders for me. I'm now trying to translate it all to a 450. I think the concept still works, I just need to get over the intimidation factor of a significantly larger bird.

But a computer radio is really a must. You can set the radio up for much tamer settings, not just expo, but less pitch and collective so sudden, big or panic movements on the sticks (as we do as learners) won't react so violently on the heli. And by adjusting your pitch curve, you can ensure that you don't have negative pitch at low throttle/collective stick position. Also you can reduce head speed to dull down the performance. So when you do inevitable panic and pull the stick back, it will lessen the rate the heli heads for the ground.

And although the sim doesn't exactly translate to real world flying, it is a really worthwhile trainer. I'm still working on my reverse orientation (nose in hover) and if I'd crashed my heli as many times as I have on the sim, I probably would have given up lol

Stick with it, it can be a very discouraging hobby at times! Some of us learn quicker than others - I'm one of the slow learners.... But when it all finally clicks it's extremely rewarding.

[aterren]

Originally Posted by Darren@Oz

I always read to be gentle with the controls. So if the heli drifted sideways, I would slowly pull on the stick in an effort to correct it. I had some expo dialled in, so the reaction was somewhat delayed which didn't help. But I would gradually keep pulling the stick the opposite direction until it started coming back. Problem is, rather than settle into a hover, it would then start coming back the direction I was pulling the stick. So I would start gradually leaning on the stick in the opposite direction and it would all start over again.

You need to remove a bit of the first correction very shortly after it starts to take effect. If you are drifting left and give a bit of right to stop the drift as the drift slows you need to put a bit of left back in to avoid the over correction cycle. Eventually the corrections get very small. More like pressure on the stick rather than moving the stick. It is a fun journey.