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broncomech · 10-05-2006, 11:54 PM

Help needed on increasing cyclic response in roll axis.
My MX400 has all aluminum mods from the swash up except for the blade grips which are TRex450 plastic, the paddles and are stock and I am running align wood blades 315mm.
My pitch response is fairly fast but I cant seem to get the roll response to match. I can not increase throw any more on the roll as I will have interference between the stabilizer control ball links and the blade grips.
I am not looking for twitchy response but an increase in response is needed, would shortening the stabilizer bar improve response?

Raven_darkcloud · 10-07-2006, 12:03 AM

Get lighter paddles. x400 stock paddles are heavy to make them easyer to fly.

broncomech · 10-08-2006, 07:23 PM

Sounds like I will be buying some new Align paddles but which ones? there are two weights listed HS1191 Flybar Paddle Weight:6.11g/pcs & HS1192 8.84g/pcs.
I am guessing the g/pcs is the weight per paddle if so I need the HS1191, if it is for the set I will need the HS1192 and some wheel collars.
My stock paddles weigh 8.xx g/each.
I managed my first roll today but it it was slow, no big deal as I had plenty of altitude to spare, but faster cyclic is a must.

Raven_darkcloud · 10-09-2006, 12:50 AM

align has a smaller flybar, so fitting trex paddles to a x400 flybar will be interesting. Another option is to shorten the flybar its self on get the cf paddles for the x400. also you may be able to make the gorilla gear programable paddles work. I have a trex head on mine. A crash and lhs not stocking x400 parts are part of the reason for that. Also check the amount of cyclic pitch you get. My setup gets 7 degrees of cyclic throw (not recomended for newbies) offset by small amount of expo and low rate set to 80% on my dr.

steve28 · 10-12-2006, 03:48 AM

higher headspeed might work , what motor do you run , what speed control , what pinion . also what MX 400 is it , do you have the upgrade 120 deg CCPM upper side frames , if not consider getting the upgrade , the extra linkages used in the single pitch servo design lessens some of the sensitivity . your heli will roll faster with the upgrade .

broncomech · 10-12-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

what motor do you run , what speed control , what pinion . also what MX 400 is it , do you have the upgrade 120 deg CCPM upper side frames

Helimax 2580, CC-35 in governor mode, 13T pinion, MX400Pro no eCCPM upgrade yet, Head speed is set for 2500 and holds well except for during hard maneuvering at high pitch where it drops 175 to 200 rpm.[/quote]

steve28 · 10-12-2006, 09:21 PM

you'd wake the sleepy bird up with an align 430L motor(3550KV) , get an appropriate pinion mabey a 9 or 10 tooth and you'l be laughing . I found that the helimax motor got too hot when flying and was always bogging down . just my 2 cents

broncomech · 10-13-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

you'd wake the sleepy bird up with an align 430L motor(3550KV)

That is on my wish list but for now I am going to have to live with the stock motor.

I installed an align stabilizer bar and the HS1191 6.11g Flybar Paddles
along with a set of align aluminum main grips. The metal grips allowed me to increase my cyclic EPA as there is much less material on the bottom of the metal grip vs the Align plastic I was using.
Based on numerous posts from people who have done this mod I was expecting a substantial change in control response, what I got is no where near as much increase as expected.

I also picked up a strange side to side rocking in hover. The skids swing side to side about 1/4 inch total while the rotor disc appears to be steady, I changed blades but no change. The rocking seems to disappear in forward flight. has anyone else seen this problem before?

Quote:

align has a smaller flybar, so fitting trex paddles to a x400 flybar will be interesting

The Align fly bars (HS1184 /220mm) I got are the same diameter as the stock MX400 except for the end which is threaded to accept their paddles.

broncomech · 11-04-2006, 11:16 AM

Ok motor has been changed to 430L with 11T pinion turning 315mm align woodys, head speed is now set for 2450 normal and 2600 in idle up, cyclic response is better but could be faster, collective is set +/- 9
I will be testing with a 12T pinion and target HS of 2550 norm and 2700 idle up.
I think I will reduce collective to +/- 8 to reduce bogging and adjust form there based on flight log data and response.

Quote:

Raven_darkcloud
My setup gets 7 degrees of cyclic throw (not recommended for newbies) offset by small amount of expo and low rate set to 80% on my dr.

I have not seen how to determine cyclic input angles, I have a clue but don't want to mis-adjust something cuz I don't fully understand the process. Can you provide info or link to detailed instructions?

moyesboy · 11-13-2006, 06:48 AM

Maybe you read the thread at trextuning, "livening up the x400"?
Check that the links on the side of the stabiliser frame are not hitting the ali on the underside of the stab frame. This loosens the balls and they might just pop off - file a chamfer there.
I have some blocking on the underside of the trex ali blade holders on full elev and aeleron -just trying not to apply both together at the same time - maybe a cyclic ring to cure that on the tx.

I just fitted the longer boom and 325 blades to see how it goes but have not had a chance to fly it in anger.

I'm thinking to get toward 3000 rpm but my duration will be pants i think my 3 cel packs are not the best.

jrohland · 11-13-2006, 11:49 AM

I have tried many things to improve the roll and pitch rate. Headspeed 2800, T-Rex flybar and light weight paddles, no flybar weights.

The main problem is the ball links from the washout arms to the flybar cage hit the bottom of the blade grips when you try to get more than 6 degrees of pitch and roll.

I have modified my flybar cage (see diagram below) so those ball links are lower. First, you MUST have the aluminum cage. Cut out and dispose of the pieces with the black X. Now mount the two remaining pieces on the flybar. Shape them as an inverted V. Adjust the links from the washout up to the modified flybar cage so the washout arms are level at midstick.

With this mod, I can now get over 8 degrees of roll and pitch without the ball links hitting the blade grips.

I pressed the ball links on the wrong way at the top because the extreme angle tended to pop them off when pressed on the normal way.

Sorry I don't have photos. I am at work and don't have the heli or camera. If they would help, I can try to post photos later.

jrohland

10-05-2006, 11:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
broncomech Registered Users Join Date: May 2006	MX400 with slow roll cyclic Help needed on increasing cyclic response in roll axis. My MX400 has all aluminum mods from the swash up except for the blade grips which are TRex450 plastic, the paddles and are stock and I am running align wood blades 315mm. My pitch response is fairly fast but I cant seem to get the roll response to match. I can not increase throw any more on the roll as I will have interference between the stabilizer control ball links and the blade grips. I am not looking for twitchy response but an increase in response is needed, would shortening the stabilizer bar improve response?

10-07-2006, 12:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
Raven_darkcloud Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Mar 2006	Get lighter paddles. x400 stock paddles are heavy to make them easyer to fly. __________________ Team Outrage OPM - Fly it like it aint yours! JR X9303 2.4 Baby. I have felt the difference and I like it! Don"t make me list 'm all !

10-09-2006, 12:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
Raven_darkcloud Registered Users My HF Map location Join Date: Mar 2006	align has a smaller flybar, so fitting trex paddles to a x400 flybar will be interesting. Another option is to shorten the flybar its self on get the cf paddles for the x400. also you may be able to make the gorilla gear programable paddles work. I have a trex head on mine. A crash and lhs not stocking x400 parts are part of the reason for that. Also check the amount of cyclic pitch you get. My setup gets 7 degrees of cyclic throw (not recomended for newbies) offset by small amount of expo and low rate set to 80% on my dr. __________________ Team Outrage OPM - Fly it like it aint yours! JR X9303 2.4 Baby. I have felt the difference and I like it! Don"t make me list 'm all !

11-13-2006, 11:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
jrohland HF Support My HF Map location Join Date: May 2006 Location: US, Virgina	This might help I have tried many things to improve the roll and pitch rate. Headspeed 2800, T-Rex flybar and light weight paddles, no flybar weights. The main problem is the ball links from the washout arms to the flybar cage hit the bottom of the blade grips when you try to get more than 6 degrees of pitch and roll. I have modified my flybar cage (see diagram below) so those ball links are lower. First, you MUST have the aluminum cage. Cut out and dispose of the pieces with the black X. Now mount the two remaining pieces on the flybar. Shape them as an inverted V. Adjust the links from the washout up to the modified flybar cage so the washout arms are level at midstick. With this mod, I can now get over 8 degrees of roll and pitch without the ball links hitting the blade grips. I pressed the ball links on the wrong way at the top because the extreme angle tended to pop them off when pressed on the normal way. Sorry I don't have photos. I am at work and don't have the heli or camera. If they would help, I can try to post photos later. jrohland

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10-08-2006, 07:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
broncomech Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: May 2006	Sounds like I will be buying some new Align paddles but which ones? there are two weights listed HS1191 Flybar Paddle Weight:6.11g/pcs & HS1192 8.84g/pcs. I am guessing the g/pcs is the weight per paddle if so I need the HS1191, if it is for the set I will need the HS1192 and some wheel collars. My stock paddles weigh 8.xx g/each. I managed my first roll today but it it was slow, no big deal as I had plenty of altitude to spare, but faster cyclic is a must.

10-12-2006, 03:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
steve28 Registered Users Join Date: Jul 2006	higher headspeed might work , what motor do you run , what speed control , what pinion . also what MX 400 is it , do you have the upgrade 120 deg CCPM upper side frames , if not consider getting the upgrade , the extra linkages used in the single pitch servo design lessens some of the sensitivity . your heli will roll faster with the upgrade .

10-12-2006, 09:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
steve28 Registered Users Join Date: Jul 2006	you'd wake the sleepy bird up with an align 430L motor(3550KV) , get an appropriate pinion mabey a 9 or 10 tooth and you'l be laughing . I found that the helimax motor got too hot when flying and was always bogging down . just my 2 cents

11-13-2006, 06:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
moyesboy Registered Users Join Date: Oct 2006	Maybe you read the thread at trextuning, "livening up the x400"? Check that the links on the side of the stabiliser frame are not hitting the ali on the underside of the stab frame. This loosens the balls and they might just pop off - file a chamfer there. I have some blocking on the underside of the trex ali blade holders on full elev and aeleron -just trying not to apply both together at the same time - maybe a cyclic ring to cure that on the tx. I just fitted the longer boom and 325 blades to see how it goes but have not had a chance to fly it in anger. I'm thinking to get toward 3000 rpm but my duration will be pants i think my 3 cel packs are not the best.

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