Just want to make sure

[GeeForce]

Hi HF's!!

I've been struggling with my 600n for a couple of months now.
First my 3GX started twitching and my engine RPM's wouldn't stay the same, I had the Governor sensor plugged int the 3GX.

So I got a BeastX and I'm using the Align RCE G600 governor.
Now the twitching is gone, and the heli feels amazing, but my engine is still acting up.

I'm now convinced its the engine and not the governor as I previously thought.

So here's the issue:

Engine was running too lean so I richened it a bit on the HS and it was fine for a whole flight. Then one the second flight it was running too rich, the RPM's wouldn't come up enough to have a nice single tune when hovering, so I leaned it out and problem solved. Then when I came in for a landing after about 5min or so the head speed has dropped so much that the tail was sluggish and it also sound like it's missing?

Im running the Align 50 Hyper in it, and it hasn't been serviced for about a year +/-, I also don't do extreme 3D so the engine hasn't been running at top RPM's.

Could this be a bearing issue, or is it time for a full service on the engine?
I just want to make sure before I spend the cash and maybe find out later it wasn't that.

Thanx for the help

[Dowquest]

What pipe are you running, I've heard dif pipes don't hold tunes well, and you wind up chasing the tune flight to flight. Not sure which brands they are, but I've got a hatori, and it is rock solid. Recently I rebuilt my 50sx after about 6 months of flyimg, I had switched clunks and ran it lean, I wound up toasting a rear bearing. After the rebuild, it was a huge differance. If you have a good pipe on it, I'd pull the motor for an inspection. Not a huge time commitment, but a huge comfort to know everything is still good.

[GeeForce]

Thanx for the reply.

I decided to change out the front and back bearings and found that the back one was a bit toasted. I want to check if its sorted at the field tomorrow. Will post my findings.

[GeeForce]

Ok, I've finally got a chance to fly my heli again, and I don't know what's going on.

I do have one theory though.
The engine perorms ok'ish, and the revs will suddenly increase like there's no drag on the engine, i.e an engine without a prop.

The headspeed doesn't seem to increase or decrease during this rev up, but it sounds like it's going to blow something so I don't keep it in the air for too long.

My theory: I had to change out the fuel lines in the main and header tank, and I checked the clunk and it looks like it might be sitting too far back against the main tank. The line is not bending at all, and the clunk can move, but not too freely if you understand what I mean. Up and down, fine but left and right not completely. It moves but there's definitely some friction against the clunk and the tank.

So I think what might cause this behavior, is the clunk being against the tank just enough to lean out the engine, therefor the revs picks up so intensely, but then again, will this happen with a header tank attached?

What do you guys think, am I just blowing smoke or might I be on to something?

Unfortunately I can't just test whenever I want to, I have to wait for a weekend, so i try to do everything I can during the week and test on weekends.

[mr_squiggle]

Funny changes in revs like you describe could also be a worn out clutch. Check that too.

[GeeForce]

That does make sense, maybe it could be that too.

How can I check without starting the engine though, a rule of thumb type of suggestion?

[meowguy]

A few things to consider:
1. The governor provided with the AR7200BX works very well and you should consider using that with the Spektrum back plate rpm sensor.

2. The biggest problems with engines going lean and rich, is an unreliable fuel delivery. The bongs that hold the fuel nipple in the tank are notorious trouble spots. Pin holes around the breather nipple have caused problems also. The tank is easily removed for service by just carefully pulling out the rubber bushing material around it. Blow into it and see if it holds pressure. You can push it underwater as you blow into to check for bubbles.

3. Check for tightness of the muffler at the engine. Perhaps a bad gasket is leaking at the manifold. Check the pressure nipple that it is secure and not leaking. Examine your fuel filter for gunk. The clunk too far to the rear was a good catch.

4. Using Spektrum telemetry is the best way to measure what your engine is doing. If the temperature of the engine is more than 140 or 150 degree F, you are running too lean. Rotor RPM should be around 1900 for sport flying.

5. If this is a used engine you have no history with, then you could suspect it needs a rebuild or replacing. Otherwise go with steps 1 thru 4 above.

This has been my practice for engine happiness.

[GeeForce]

Awesome, sounds good.

I bought the engine with the heli and it was working perfectly up until now.

I'll get those checked, maybe I'll find something that might resolve the issue.
Will post again when I've checked and tested.

Thanx for the advice

[ticedoff8]

As "mr_squiggle" said, I would focus on the clutch being worn out.

You have to remove the engine from the frame and take a close look at the clutch liner in the clutch bell.
My guess is there is no liner left.
If that is the case, then plan on replacing both the liner and the clutch itself.
When the liner is completely worn away, the leafs on the clutch over-extend and the will not return to their designed position.
When you replace the liner, the leafs will be pressed hard against the new liner, and you cannot start the engine.
If you squeeze the leafs back into their original positions, they will most likely crack at their hinge points.
On some future flight, the crack will break, and the leaf will jam.
If you wore the liner all the way down, just get a new clutch as part of the maintenance

I would also suggest that the bad rear bearing is the root cause of the lean / rich flights on the heli.
But, I have also seen the little ratchet get loose on the needle. The ratchet is the metal spring that clicks against the needle. If that gets loose, then the needle will vibrate open or closed as the flight progresses.

Your best bet is to find a good needle setting, then close the needle all the way down and count the turns.
Then, make a note of that setting (say, 1 and 3/4 turn open). Then next time (if it ever happens again), before you adjust the needle richer or leaner, turn it all the way closed first.
If it normally flies at 1 3/4 open, and now it is 2 or 2 1/4, you know it is slipping

[GeeForce]

Thanx for all the great advice.

I do however doubt it's the clutch as I did check it when the issues started with the engine, but it might have taken a knock in between tests recently.

Nevertheless, I'll check all the suggested and will post afterwards.

Thanx again!!!

[emphsisdx]

Hi all..

This is the first time on this forum so bare with me .

I have a trex 600n pro fbl with an OS 50 hyper engine and futaba digital servos all round.
The problem is with the FBL gyro. Currently I have installed a copter x cx-3x2000 gyro and want to know if this is any good for the nitro helicopter? If so what gain settings should I have for safe and smooth flight?

Thanks

[ticedoff8]

Welcome.

Basic etiquette of any forum is not to hijack a thread.
You have a valid question, but it is not related to this thread.
You should start your own thread.
And, it should be posted in a section that more closely relates to your question.

This question seems to mainly relate to the CopterX cx-3x2000.
I would suggest posting a new thread in the https://www.helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=93 "Flybarless Helicopter Systems"

Good luck.

[GeeForce]

Ok, so I'm really on the verge of making a fire and tossing this engine right in there!!!

I've checked the clutch, all good. Air sealed the backplate and exhaust.
Adjusted the tubing in the main tank. But now, a whole new issue.
I have a onboard glow ignitor setup and if I press the button it ignites the glow for about 2seconds.

Now the problem; if I start the engine it immediately dies after about 2seconds, no matter if I tune the engine leaner or richer. It happens every time and exactly after the same amount of time!! And I've changed the plug as well.

I'm out of ideas!!

[Ozz58]

Have you changed the glow plug?

[mr_squiggle]

Ok, it might pay to go back to basics. I assume you've re-set all the carb needle settings to the start position as per the manual. Disable the governor just to make sure. Do a sanity check on the idle position (look at the carb & check the fully closed position for stopping and then ensure that the carb is open enough for idle).
Use the recommended glow plug, normally an OS 8. Remove the glow plug & check it on the bench.
Remove the blades (main & tail) & fire up the engine with the aim of getting a reliable idle only (no mid or high speed running). Adjust carb open/close to increase the idle so it will at least run. Steadily reduce idle speed whilst tuning idle mix (no wild moves required here, small adjustments only). Repeat until you achieve reliable idle every time you stop & start the engine (even from cold).
Add blades & check mid & high speed running, tune as necessary.
If you can't get a reliable idle then something else is wrong. It might be a small amount of grit in the idle side of the carb & you may need to strip & clean the carb to "back blow" any crap out of the small galleries.
Hope that helps.

[GeeForce]

Thanx for the response. I can't get a steady idle at all and if I open the idle more via trim, it revs to high when I do get it started.

I think the only thing I have left to do is to clean the carb, maybe there's something there causing all this problems.

I don't think it's the plug, I have replaced it and even checked it on the bench, glows perfectly.

[GeeForce]

I decided to check the engine today, so I loosened the pipe and then there was just oil pooring out of the engine. The pipe was so full of oil and unburned feul that it litarly poored out. Obviosly it was running way too rich

So I changed out all the plumbing for new ones and bolted the pipe back on. Started the engine, it died a couple of times, but with some 5min tuning, all seems ok. It idles without dying. Will test fly next weekend.

Puting the wood and firelighters away for now.

[mr_squiggle]

Yep, that'll do it. Good on you for getting it sorted. Let us know how the test flight goes.

[GeeForce]

Ok, I got the chopper in the air today.
The engine sounds good now.

I think I played it too safe with the needle settings, and Ive leaned it out quite a bit and it seems perfect. Got some healthy smoke as well.


Thanx for all the advice.

I've got some advice to give now, don't always trust your instincts, but always trust what the engine tells you.

[GeeForce]

Hi guys!!

I had a couple of unexpecting auto's which was interesting...

I thought I had it figured out and I still kinda do, but my concern is it might be too lean. The engine's HSP is only 3 quarters turned out( richened ), is this too lean?

If I turn it out more the engine has no power and I can't even lift the heli.
Thanx for bearing with this long unending thread with me, I just want to be sure all is good.