Throttle curve % v. Power output

[mmarian]

There is a discussion going in the Kontronik forum about a governor head room. I would appreciate if someone with JLog could do a test to help to resolve this. The test should be with Kontronik 100LV or similar, not Heli Jive. I would like to know at what point of Tx throttle curve the Jive gives 100% of power output when the Throttle channel ATVs are L100% and H100%. And than repeat the test with calibrated ATVs set to about 80% -as per the Tx throttle channel calibratiion shown in Mr.Mels video.

[dl7uae]

Meanwhile the graphs here may help also a bit.

In fact there is an "uplift" throttle-->PWM at least in the heli modes 4 and 11(HJ: 5), no PWM below 50% (even a bit higher w/ the H/JIVE). Who cares? Honestly, I'm still trying to understand the whole discussion at all.

We all fly a heli mode, right? So we all provide a throttle "line" which in the end acts as "setRPM" to the governor in the ESC. setRPM: Relative one in M4, fix one in M11 and M5,6,3 of the H/JIVE.

The JIVE provides by itself that he well understands the throttle pulse, done during setup of a mode (teach-in).
Together with the "uplift" mentioned above that leads to: In most setups throttle should be no higher than 60..65% (20..30 on a +/-100 scale).

OK.. And why should we tweak the throttle travel now after teach-in? I still cannot see a reason. To be able to predict the resulting speed? Aha, hmm.. and ha ha... Since when is the rpm/V exactly that what the manufacturer of a motor specifies? And what about the different voltage levels of batteries due to different chemistry?

IMHO there is a simple solution by a simple tool: Tach. (no absolute need for a JLog here) And w/ modes 11(HJ: 5,6,3) we need it one-time only because the ESC has learned the relation throttle/rpm.


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OK .. you can argue admirably on whether a constant RPM is really needed. Speed ​​freaks fly at full throttle, the battery is the speed controller.
Which impact have speed fluctuations? Dropping RPM: Almost none. Rising (motor-driven) RPM: If the RPM rises too fast then the counter-torque have one. But here everything depends on the behavior of the control loop (the governor function of the ESC): Sloooowly increasing the speed. To prevent speed break-ins of every amount, this is NOT a priority.

Tom

[mmarian]

It is very simple in fact, as far as I understand this whole discussion about the head room. It all started with a statement that at flat throttle curve (line) of 80% in the Tx the Power Output from Jive is already maxed out at 100%, hence there is no head room for governor to work properly. The recommendation was to not go over 65 or 70% in order to use full potential of governor mode of these great Jive ESCs. My question was what the Power Output is with the End points "calibrated" (around 81-82) in oppose to Power output with the End Points left at 100 with the throttle curve -flat line of 80% in both cases. That is all what I am trying to find out.

[dl7uae]

Well, if 65% of throttle is the maximum for having enough PWM headroom from the JIVE's perspective, transmitter's ATV was 100/100 during teach-in, then after "calibrating" the endpoints it is a simple arithmetic exercise. Only, I still wonder just for which the calibration should be good.

Example:

Transmitter's throttle running 0..100. ATV was 100/100 during setup of a mode of the JIVE. So the JIVE learned 0==0, 100==100.

Now we stretch the throttle travel in the transmitter, minimum is 10, maximum is 80, - to avoid the "deadband". (Wrong! No good to do that!)

OK... Now maximum throttle from the transmitter (high end) will be 80 in the perspective of the JIVE, and at the low end the JIVE will see 10 at minimum, - and start the commutation at 12% (an amount of only 2 remaining as security distance..). To let the JIVE initialize we must provide 0..3% throttle by other means, by the throttle value behind an AR switch for example.

What does this change? IMHO nothing except of some loss of security. The stick travel have been stretched, OK. But, who cares? We anyway switch the "throttle line" by other means.

Tom

[Stolla]

TOM I'm on full agreement with you here, why people want to calibrate the thr is beyond me, kontronik recommends 65-70%, now why make it difficult for yourself to calibrate tx just to confuse yourself , somehow I've been wasting my breath trying to convince people to just follow kontroniks recommendation
Off subject but since you advised me on the issue of the jive slowing down for couple of secs to smooth p I on the gov, what values do you recommend here.
Thnx!

[dl7uae]

Hi!

Well, I do not have experience-based numbers for you because I did not find the time to go flying for 1 3/4 yrs now...

But, should be simple: We need to smoothen the PWM slew rate a bit more than anyway implemented. That means to rise I or lower P or both. Just experiment with.

Sorry for my "solomonic answer".

Tom

[Stolla]

Thnx will try ksa and then if still problem will play some with the gains, we'l have to get you up and flying!
Cheers