CC Bailout with SK GOV - how to thread!! (also for YGE and others)

[Arcturus97]

Did some test flights today - autorotation bailout (SK Gov and Castle ESC) is working good. Trex 500 was the test mule, Fusion 50 is next to get the treatment.

[omerco]

Great to hear!

[georgi UK]

=] let's keep it up here for a while, great work Omer!

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by georgi UK

=] let's keep it up here for a while, great work Omer!

Ok, sorry for a late reply. My flight skills have now out distanced my gov activity. Not to mention the bail out. I either have a violent ramp coming out of a low bog or coming out of TH. One of which shattered my aluminum main gear hub in my Tri 800 when it happened. Or, a slower than optimal spool back up to speed on the three others with my Yge's when the gov is heavily loaded. Since this thread is more about gov recovery in a sense, should I post this here? Or start another thread Omer? I am already running my soft start figures rather aggressively, basically no more soft start. Guys running Yge, HW, and others will also need some help here when pushing the gov hard. On my 600 it may merely be my 300 flight old 65c nano's are nearing the end. Man, are they coming in hot.

Fantastic work on the Castles!

[omerco]

I think we can keep it here
How did you set your YGE's? you have to set them to slow IDLE. if they shut completely they will always SS back. there is no real clasic bailout on them.

But it also looks like you have another problem causing bogging? I'm not sure I understood exactly what you experience...
I have 1 HW but its on my X3 where I don't auto, but I can bench test it - just don't have the time now...

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by omerco

I think we can keep it here
How did you set your YGE's? you have to set them to slow IDLE. if they shut completely they will always SS back. there is no real clasic bailout on them.

But it also looks like you have another problem causing bogging? I'm not sure I understood exactly what you experience...
I have 1 HW but its on my X3 where I don't auto, but I can bench test it - just don't have the time now...

I will get back to you on this, as I am eliminating variables. Some of this may be related to the YGE esc on my Tri 800 doing some funky stuff on the last flight, and not directly related to the Skookum? On my Jeti I use a different momentary toggle with different settings than my committed TH toggle to do autos. I was previously using that momentary one to get my gov to engage during spool ups when I was having issues getting it to kick as we discussed on another thread. Odd thing? Both helis were spooling up and the gov kicking right in. I changed blade brands on these two and am having the issue again off and on with both. How is that for weird?

On my 800 tri, I was just done doing nose down tocs, and it went into soft spool or sounded almost maybe more like a low voltage spool down. Yet my jeti telemetry still showed good pack voltage? Then suddenly, bang, full non gov'd 100% power, and it sheared my main hub in two. That was fun.

So, whining over. On Yge I have to hit a high original spool speed that the drive train can handle to get my gov to engage using my more powerful motors than the less torque versions. When I ran those the gov had no issue engaging during soft spools during the original spool ups. Yet I cannot seem to get the gov engaging consistently with KDE gen 3s at all. They simply don't load up.
As there is no other secondary bail out or recovery spool speed available from zero value? So, by using a higher low throttle value on my momentary TH toggle. There is? But I am still not quite clear on how I set up the YGE by programming in a higher speed value (the plane fast thing, or?) 3x in a row for that to happen.

This is going to happen on all four of my larger Yge/Yep equipped 600 plus size helis. My HW is on my 420mm stretched Chase, which is now in a bag due to a real stupid moment. And no I didn't crash it per se.
I also need to setup bail outs on six helis at our field for the guys who are running Skookums. Now they don't have the option of having separate Th toggles like I have. So, instead of having true zero throttle points on theirs. I will have to add in more low value till the motors kick, then back them off a click or two? Or, as soon as they come out of Th, the motors are set at a higher value and instantly start spooling?

So mistro, let Merlin's Skookum dark magic begin. Your ignorant yet willing student is listening......

[omerco]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

I changed blade brands on these two and am having the issue again off and on with both. How is that for weird?

Its not weird as the engagement depends on how the head is loaded: it has to cross a certain throttle value to kick. that is also why your momentary switch helps: you cut throttle and when you give it back the governor raises the throttle to higher values due to the low RPM relative to target.

On my 800 tri, I was just done doing nose down tocs, and it went into soft spool or sounded almost maybe more like a low voltage spool down. Yet my jeti telemetry still showed good pack voltage? Then suddenly, bang, full non gov'd 100% power, and it sheared my main hub in two. That was fun.

I know what you talk about it happened to me as well few times - when you really unload it it goes SS again. One thing you could try is setting your lower throttle Tx value (with SK governor off) exactly to the point where the YGE arms. you will find it is much higher than how you set it with the card/throttle stick. then teach SK that value as the low one and it could prevent the governor to close throttle to too low values.

for the hub shredding - that is why YGE says they want you to keep low idle for bailout and not shut down, but I really think they could find a better solution...For you - probably lower high ramp.

On Yge I have to hit a high original spool speed that the drive train can handle to get my gov to engage using my more powerful motors than the less torque versions.

Again - makes sense as they need less throttle value and it might be too low for the governor to kick.

But I am still not quite clear on how I set up the YGE by hitting the plane fast thing 3x in a row for that to happen.

I think you need to hit the "governor off" X3, not plane fast? that should be once after the X3 gov off.
check here, from 9:20:

YGE External Governor Programming Video (12 min 44 sec)

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by omerco

Its not weird as the engagement depends on how the head is loaded: it has to cross a certain throttle value to kick. that is also why your momentary switch helps: you cut throttle and when you give it back the governor raises the throttle to higher values due to the low RPM relative to target.

Ahh, so as I was wondering the head load does effect how the gov engages. So more powerful motors as I suspected may have harder times since they don't sense a load like my earlier weaker versions did. I wont mention brands here as I don't want to start anything there. Which also explains why all the old timers I setup with their 6s 600s with super soft spools consistently engage. Yet my 12s 600 with its Scorp Ultimate struggles also, as does my Gob 700. But both my 800s engage no problem?

Btw, it is 2:45am over here, what the heck are you doing up this time of the night? Oops, disregard that. I forgot you are on Israel time.

[omerco]

1 - Edited: see the rest above
2- Why the heck do you have an Ultimate on a 600???
3 - You missed where I live if you ask me about the time...here its 12:49Pm

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by omerco

Why the heck you have Ultimate on a 600???

I also ran a Kde gen 3 in there at one time just playing around. I may stuff back in my Scorp 4025-630. It is all about what motors I do have and hitting a good gear ratio with the available gear and lowest pinion for the heli. And, I am a wild man?
I honestly found on 12s the Ultimate only took off about 15 sec's max off my 5:30 flight times as I was simply not working it as hard as the Scorp doing the same routine. But the Kde pulled amps just looking at it and was just a waste in there. It didn't even know it was running with mere 630s in place.

[JoeRuscito]

Ive followed all the steps a few times and am getting some inconsitant results. It seems at best I can get it to work but only on the second time I engage TH. But sometimes on subsequent trials I just get a slow start no matter what.

For example.

Start in normal let the gov take over.
Idle up
Hit TH and let motor stop
Disengage TH (motor slow starts)
Engage TH again
Disengage (motor quick starts)

Unplug battery and try the whole process again and all I will get in soft starts. Any ideas?


If I keep all settings the same and disengage SK gov the quick start works as expected.... but then I dont have a gov...

[JoeRuscito]

I got it working by lowering the CC spool up speed to 2 instead of 6. But not my spool up takes about 30 seconds!

[omerco]

Well obviously there is something wrong in your setting (as very few didn't manage to get it to work), but you provide too little info for us to help.

[JoeRuscito]

It seemed that A Viking had a similar issue on the bench. Just wondering if that sorted it self out with blades or if something was changed.

Originally Posted by A VIKING

Finally got a chance to set up auto rotation bail out on my G770 with the CC ESC.

These are my numbers in my DX9 TX:
THR Servo Travel -137/91
Throttle Cut -80

These are the numbers in the Skookum GUI:
TX in normal with throttle to minimum -25
Stunt 1 40
Stunt 2 60
Throttle hold "on" -10 at all throttle positions.
Low ramp 80
High ramp 100

The numbers in the CC ESC:
Initial spool up 6

Have only done ground testing with no blades and here are my observations.
Normal start I have a 7 second spool up to my target RPM.
Switch to Stunt 1
Switch to throttle hold "on" and motor spools down and stops.
Switch back to throttle hold "off" and motor spools up with normal 7 second acceleration to the target speed.
Switch back to throttle hold "on" and motor spools down and stops.
Switch back to throttle hold "off" and the motor does a fast start to target speed in 4 seconds.
Every subsequent throttle hold "on" followed by throttle hold "off" results in a correct fast start for auto bail out.
Only the first throttle hold "on" and back "off" results in a normal spool up of 7 seconds, the rest after that are good fast bail out spool ups of 4 seconds.

These tests were done with blades off and I know the SK governor has a hard time with RPM with no load on the system.
The results may differ with blades on.

Did you see something similar?
Just thought I would ask before committing on the flight line.

Thanks!

[omerco]

If it works on the bench its usually a good sign it will work.

If it doesn't it means nothing.

Fly test it.

[Luvmyhelis]

Just wanted to hop in here and say thanks again for your superb help. I re read your gov input again and it rang the bell even louder now bringing sense to a very confusing issue. Each time I read your stuff as time goes on, I begin understanding it at a deeper level. You rock bro!

[omerco]

Thanks man