DX7 + AR7100R + Switchglow

[Danal Estes]

I got my radio back today and verified everything.

Jesse, this should be working for you... check Mix2 very carefully.

Danal

[Bobbyk]

How will this work if I'm using my gear channel to control my gyro gain in flight mode, and aux two for my multigov in flight mode and my mix 2 as the engine kill switch which is tried to my gear switch.

The only thing I can think of is to program a mix which will turn switch glow on or off using my aux 2 switch with a Y lead.

Thanks

Robert

[HELINHAWAII]

Originally Posted by Danal Estes

I've been at "Southern Rotary Classic" all weekend. Great fun fly. Very pleasant weather and people. And, I just discovered I left my DX7 there!! Eeek! So I can't double check...

Meanwhile:

Ensure that Mix2 RATE: numbers are BOTH negative (minus). Upper number should be -20, lower -100. On the "PROG.MIX2" page, ensure that when physical FM switch is in "normal", that it shows "OFF", and when clicked up to 1 or 2 that it shows "ON". Also, examine the "SERVO MONITOR" screen. When in FM-Normal, clicking gear switch should move the gear channel from one side to the other. When in FM1 or 2, clicking gear switch should move gear channel from the negative side to 0 (middle).

Let me know what those screens show.


P.S. Port/Voltage will make no difference, as you discovered.

Danal, I've tried your instructions again and the only time my gear channel moves is when the gear switch is moved. When the gear switch is down(near), the slider moves to the far right in FM-Normal. In IDL1&2 it goes to the center. So all is as it should be there. However, this is where the problem lies as I discovered this weekend...when the gear switch is up(away), the slider sits very near to the far left hatch mark. It doesn't move at all when switching FM's.

[Danal Estes]

Originally Posted by HELINHAWAII

Danal, I've tried your instructions again and the only time my gear channel moves is when the gear switch is moved. When the gear switch is down(near), the slider moves to the far right in FM-Normal. In IDL1&2 it goes to the center. So all is as it should be there. However, this is where the problem lies as I discovered this weekend...when the gear switch is up(away), the slider sits very near to the far left hatch mark. It doesn't move at all when switching FM's.

OK, sounds good in all modes with switch down.

When switching between flight modes, with the values given above, the movement will be very small. About the width of the marker. It's only moving a few percent. Specifically, 5% per step (with values given above). This is hard to see... but there is a tiny movement on the display, and it does work, and does make a difference in head speed. I did a bunch of tach-ing at SRC last weekend and it worked fine. Just for grins, change to more than 5% per step. For example, change Mix2's top RATE value from -20 to -50 and see if you get more visible movement.

Also... at one point you said that FM1 and 2 didn't disable the SG; that is you could possibly hot start. Given that you are seeing the gear channel at zero with Gear down and FM1 or 2, and at left with gear up, is this still an issue? With gear in center, RPM and SG should be off; at left, SG should be off, and RPM limiter set.

On another topic: Someone asked me earlier if these are real numbers for good head speeds on the T700. Yes, they turn out to be pretty good, with stock pinion. To the best of my memory, FM1 was 1780 and FM2 was 19something. I may tweak up or down by a percent or two, but not much more than that. I didn't write down any headspeeds; I will, and post them here. Important note: Your curves MUST be set up "high enough" to yield these speeds; the RPM thingie in the AR7100R is only a LIMITER, and not a governor. It can only reduce speed from where your curves are set.

[Pinecone]

Any idea on how to program mixes for a 9303 and a Switch Glow?

With the 9303 you can't use Gear with the GOV, and Gyro uses Aux 2. You can use Aux 4 for the SG, mapped to the Aux 2 switch.

And I am running MultiGov Pro which uses the Gear channel to select the dsired headspeed out of the 3 you program into the MGP. You send -100, 0 or +100 out the gear channel to pick RPM1, RPM2, or RPM3.

But I have been trying to find a set of mixes that only allows the SG to come on when the Throttle is at or near Idle I spent some time playing with it today, but I don't really understand mixes. They seem straightforward, but don't work like they seem they should.

[Bobbyk]

This is where support from SwithGlow will come in handy, do anyone know them?

We need some response to some of these questions!

Thanks

Robert

[Pinecone]

They have Futaba info on their site, no JR though.

I think I may have figured out a set of mixes that do the trick.

[Danal Estes]

Pine, the mix shown in "Variation" above does what you want on a DX7. So, here is a variation that is NOT tied into the other two mixers (e.g. use the one above for DX7, the one below for radios with more mixers and more switches):

This prevents ALL hot starts, even throttle stick based hot starts.

• [PROG.MIX whatever] (Note: some JR mixes include trim on source channel, some don't. Pick one that does)
• THRO->GEAR (instead of GEAR, use the channel where the SG is plugged)
• RATE: +125% (Always, this is what forces the Switchglow off if you raise the stick)
• +50% (Always, needed to enable Switchglow with stick down)
• SW:ON (Usually ON, see below)
• OFFSET: -90 (See below)

Notes:

• The "Offset" is the key to creating a "tipover" point at low throttle (below that point, SG on, above it, SG off, with very little throttle movement). You may need to move the -90 a tiny bit to have the "tipover" right where you want it.
• If the SG channel is on a switch, REVERSE that channel. Then you can toggle that switch DOWN to light the glow (and re-toggle if it times out).
• If the SG channel is not on a switch, the SG will come on anytime the throttle is lowered all the way; to re-light if it times out, raise throttle slightly and lower it again.
• Either way, the mixer itself doesn't really need a switch; it can just be "ON'. You can use a switch while you debug... but its not really needed for operation.

You may have to play with the offset just a bit... it is what establishes the "tipover" point at which the throttle will suddenly mix the gear WAY down (SG off) or WAY up (SG on). You can look at the servo monitor screen and see the effect.

[Pinecone]

I tried something like that, and the Mix3 - 6, which set up like that, it mixes in that PERCENTAGE of the throttle, it doesn't set that value.

Now you can use the multipoint mixes (1 and 2) and have the second channel set to explicit values.

But, with the 9303 with a GOV, you have to use Aux 3 or Aux 4, and they can't be mapped to a 2 position switch like the Aileron D/R. They can be mapped to the Aux 2 swithc, which is 3 position, and this makes strange things happen.

What I have now is Mix 1 to set the SG off when the throttle stick moves up, but have mapped the Gear to Aileron D/R switch, then Mix Gear to Aux 4 using Mix 3 like you said. This seems to work, and allows the Ail D/R switch to run the SG, but the Aux 2 switch also works.

And I don't know why, but it doesn't work without the second mix. What happens is in Normal it works fine, but in Stunt 1 or 2 the Aux 4 goes to the SG on area.

[Danal Estes]

I actually have a 9303 module radio. I fly the DX7 for the latency. I'll dig the 9303 out and play around with it.

A long time ago, I set up the mixers for "rudder" via differential thrust on a twin brushless (Multiplex Twinjet). That's when I discovered that JR's mixers have undocumented features that vary by mixer number... like whether they include trim, or not, and similar.

Anyway, I'll play around with the 9303.

[Pinecone]

Thanks.

I have tried to get Finless to do a Mixing 101 video.

[flymustangs]

Originally Posted by Danal Estes

IA long time ago, I set up the mixers for "rudder" via differential thrust on a twin brushless (Multiplex Twinjet). That's when I discovered that JR's mixers have undocumented features that vary by mixer number... like whether they include trim, or not, and similar.

I know what you mean. I just did this (Saturday) with a P-38. I was having some trouble getting this to work correctly, The left and right throttles just wouldn't advance in sync. I finally switched the second throttle from AUX1 to GEAR channel and it all worked. I couldn't find any other settings or switch positions that would have caused this, but I still could have missed something.

I'm looking forward to what you find. I'm getting ready to start a TREX 600N build and am using an AR7100R and a switchglow.

[flymustangs]

Did you ever get a chance to try this on your 9303? I'm at this point with my TREX600N build. I'm sure I can get it to work somehow, but if you've already got a workable solution that would be great.

Thanks.

[Pinecone]

I have one that I think will work. I have it in my XP9303, but need to put it into my X9303 and try it out. But I won't be able to do that for a while (travel), but once I do, if it works, I will post it.

I did fly with the Switch Glow and is was SWEET.

[Pulento]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

I have one that I think will work. I have it in my XP9303, but need to put it into my X9303 and try it out. But I won't be able to do that for a while (travel), but once I do, if it works, I will post it.

I did fly with the Switch Glow and is was SWEET.

Me too. I had to go with mixes to control RPMs instead of the governor menu.

[flymustangs]

I saw a post from Finless about using the X9303, AR7100R and switchglo. He suggested using the governor menu with negative numbers or whatever numbers keep the switchglo off. Then set the Hold number to something that will turn on the glow. Of course you have to start with throttle hold on. I know Danal doesn't like this method. I'm not sure I will either based on experience I've had starting nitro planks. the other option I can think of is to set the governor number for the normal flight mode to a number that will turn on the switchglo. That would require the FM switch be in normal to start. This doesn't prevent a hot start based on throttle position and neither gives the ability to disable the rev limiter with a switch. I'm sure I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be, but there's got to be a way to do this on a X9303 without setting up three mixes.

[Finless]

Some governors allow a RPM setting on either side of center of a channel e.g. +76 is the same RPM as -76. The Rev limiter in the AR7100R allows this.
However some govs do NOT support this. The Align gov is a prime example. It only works with the positive side of the channel. It is off if the channel is 0 or negative.
The Switch glow also turns ON on the positive side of the channel. Oh and it has to be higher than about 50 end point before it reliably turns on.
Thus using the Align gov and switch glow, you CANT turn off the gov and have switch glow turn on. Not on the same channel anyway!

Now with the AR7100 you can do this and it doesn't have to be in hold to turn it on. You can have it turn on in normal instead of hold if you want. Just set a positive number in the GOV menu in normal mode instead of hold! Heck using the x9303 gov menu, you can have it turn on in both hold and normal if you want....
BUT! Since the switch glow needs a high end point to turn on (above 50 or so) you cant turn the gov off in normal as it too will see a positive number. Even in my example on the X9303 in hold I am feeding a +80 which turns on the switch glow and the gov BUT remember, the gov does not ENGAGE unless 1) It see a value for RPM above 10 or -10, and 2) the throttle stick is above 20%. Throttle hold HOLDS the throttle at idle well below 20% so the gov will not engage. In normal this is not true unless your stick is at low stick. Is this a problem? Not really as the gov will also not engage until the motor RPM is near the target RPM. So while using normal wont prevent hot starts, I doubt you have to worry about the gov locking on in a hot start.
Myself I prefer hold to turn on the glow.

Bob

[Pinecone]

Originally Posted by Pulento

Me too. I had to go with mixes to control RPMs instead of the governor menu.

I run a MultiGovPro. For this gov, you have 3 speeds, that are set in the MGP, but are selected by feeding it -100, 0, or +100.

With my Switch Glow, it turns on when the channel is above about -80%. So -100% is off, but -80% - 100% is on. So I had a hard time keeping the SG channel around -100. And the multi points mixes don't seem to work exactly right.

[Finless]

Yep your kinda screwed with Multigov and SG on the same channel unless you give up a RPM to hold. No other way to do it.

Yes I have seen some SG's that need a really high channel value. Mine will turn on above 50 but I have seen some that need almost the full 100.
You sure you don't have your gov channel reversed? My SG turns on with a positive gov menu value not a negative.

Bob

[Pulento]

Yes. My SG won't turn reliably on any positive value, it will if I set a high value and then go back to a low value. So I set the gear switch to turn it on with a flip down when I hear the chime I flip back up and keep chiming 10s. If I keep the switch down the chime is intermitent.

Mine it's just like a flip-flop works on the falling edge