450l gpro tail BO Fast backwards flight

[Martinshelis]

Thank you ShlomiB and RC/DC Ill try lowering the precomp and increasing the I-gain some more next time out.

[Martinshelis]

So I have gotten the tail locked in fast backwards flight and no more right tail kick in pitch pumps by raising the gain in the transmitter to 45% but my tail wags in fast banking turns and funnels. I am going to try lowering p gain in the gpro? I also shortened my control rod two whole turns for a perfect hold in rate mode but now the tail feels sticky/locked when trying to kick the tail to the left whereas before it spun left and right equally.

[Martinshelis]

I still haven't gotten the fast backwards flight blowout fixed. I have lowered the tail lock gain in the gpro and raised the gain in the transmitter but as soon as I lower the gain in the transmitter enough so the tail doesnt shake in funnels and fast tail out turns the tail will not hold in fast backwards flight. I have raised the I gain up so far that the tail will whip. Just not sure what to do from here.. It seems there must be a very fine mixture of settings to get the tail to not wag in funnels and hold in fast backwards flight. I am new to gyro tuning but didn't think it would be this hard.

[RC/DC_5000]

Depending on how hard you fly it... the DS 525M tail servo does have a delicate zone for perfection. I always found a slight wag in hard funnels with a light breeze.

I put on the MKS DS8910A+ and its about 10 times better all around. The tail is more stable, crisp and nearly impossible to get tail wag.

With that being said though, the DS 525 is very good and should be able to be tuned to work nearly perfect with some slight wag in wind/very high speeds. The MKS servo does feel much different, wags less, is much more accurate and stable overall. Mostly due to its frame rate. You can NOT beat a 760 servo on a 450. Its a blessing.

Sounds like you may have some mechanical problems though. It never hurts to go through your tail setup from step one. I've done it a few million times in my helicopters. OCD pays off in this hobby. I mean I worked with my tail linkage and slider until gravity alone would make it move. It needs to have zero resistance throughout its travel.

[Martinshelis]

My tail is pretty smooth. It had slight binding at first in the links but that is gone now. I even purchased the kde link upgrade but like I said after about 30 flights it is smooth so I haven't put it on yet. The tail slider bushing is actually worn a bit too much now as I have maybe a degree or two of slop in the blades which is coming from the slider bushing. I am going to replace that this week but doesn't seem to be affecting my flight much besides a tad bit more wag in a hover. From what everyone tells me at the field I fly way harder than they have ever seen besides the internet. I am no BK but fly aggressive. I can get the tail solid in a hover, 3d with pitch pumps and fast backwards flight but when I do that my tail wags in fast tail out moves. If I adjust the settings so my tail doesn't wag in those moves then It will not hold in fast backwards flight. I am new to heli tuning so it is a good possibility that my tail isn't set right. I have adjusted the radio all the way down to -100 and set the tail rod so that the tail will stay in one spot. Funny thing is I adjusted the gain in the gpro software all the way down to 30 yesterday and the tail wanted to spin to the left so maybe the rate mode was holding the tail still when I lowered the gain to -100 in the radio last time out? If I lengthen the tail rod and radio at -100 then my tail will spin to the right. There aren't any hardcore heli flyers where I am at so they don't really know how to set a gyro up for what I am doing. Will the mks servo work with the stock bec? Is there a better tail servo than the mks that will work with the stock bec? I am going to order that servo tonight depending on what you might have to say about this post. Thank you again I really appreciate the help.

[RC/DC_5000]

I use a Polaris 10A BEC with the MKS 8910A+
Its only 35 bucks and is good piece of mind with a servo like this and just an all around good idea. MKS has told me that their servos can draw up to 2A a piece. You might be able to get away with the stock BEC but I personally wouldn't.

There aren't too many 760us micro servos out there. MKS also has the DS95i micro servo which needs an adapter to mount on the 450L. I'd recommend one of those MKS servos for what you want. Futaba also has one but I don't like it with its strange voltage specs.

If you can get your Align 525M to perform great with just the one caveat of high speed tail wag or wind- that's where I was at with it too. I'd always pick up a little tail wag in extreme high speed or wind.

If you can fly it hard- you need a 760us tail servo no matter what is happening. For extreme 3D, it will lock, hold, pop, center and rudder light years better than the 1520us.

It makes a 450 tail feel like a 600 tail. Planted.

[Martinshelis]

Originally Posted by RC/DC_5000

If you can get your Align 525M to perform great with just the one caveat of high speed tail wag or wind- that's where I was at with it too. I'd always pick up a little tail wag in extreme high speed or wind.

If you can fly it hard- you need a 760us tail servo no matter what is happening. For extreme 3D, it will lock, hold, pop, center and rudder light years better than the 1520us.

It makes a 450 tail feel like a 600 tail. Planted.

That's exactly where I am at. Holds great till I push the envelope. Would work 100% for most out there I assume.

[Martinshelis]

I will try upping the voltage and flying once I guess. if that does not work than I will order the new tail servo. Thanks

[RC/DC_5000]

No problem. Yea I was assuming you had the servos at 6.0 volts. Thats a little more speed and torque you're missing so that might help.

Good luck.

[Martinshelis]

Well I ordered some zeal carbon blades and shims for the tail gears. Going to put on the carbon tail control rod to remove any flex, kde tail control upgrade and replace the tail slider bushing to make sure it is absolutely bind and slop free. Hopefully that will do it. If none of this works than I will replace the esc with a HW 50a and a bk tail servo. Next weekend if everything is in I will test this combo out and report back.

[Martinshelis]

The kde tail control upgrade was an absolute waste of time and money. You can get the tail links tighter but any tighter than I had the stock links and it starts binding. With the kde links you have to rely on the locktight 100% as you have to set the screws somewhat loose whereas the align links you can actually tighten the screws some. The carbon boom is definitely lighter but requires you to tighten the boom clamps more and it actually distorts my tail fin a hair. The carbon tail control rod is a good upgrade as it is way stiffer and can actually flex the boom if your endpoints are off and the fact that the rod support can be removed with a single screw vs having to remove the tail and zip ties. I am hoping with the control rod flex now eliminated and going to stiffer carbon blades will allow me to run enough gain to hold the tail in fast backwards flight while not wagging in fast banking turns/moves. I am guessing the wag in the fast banking turns is from control rod and tail blade flex. Zeal blades are supposed to be here monday so I will be able to report back then.

[RC/DC_5000]

Try to switch the KDE Links... They are not interchangeable and actually only work in their correct position.

The links are quite good. But they are actually angled differently.

[Martinshelis]

Originally Posted by RC/DC_5000

Try to switch the KDE Links... They are not interchangeable and actually only work in their correct position.

The links are quite good. But they are actually angled differently.

Are you talking about the skinny side vs the thick side? I did notice that the bearings would only go in a certain way.

[Martinshelis]

Also on a side note I test flew it today and I had to turn the gain way up. It seems the carbon rod with the extra voltage made quite a difference. Can't wait to see what the blades do. Haven't been able to to test fast tail out turns yet but I think I am on the right track.

[RC/DC_5000]

No.. I mean switch the entire KDE link with the other one. They are not the same and line up without binding when in the correct position.

[Martinshelis]

Originally Posted by RC/DC_5000

No.. I mean switch the entire KDE link with the other one. They are not the same and line up without binding when in the correct position.

I read the directions but didn't see anything saying they were different?


https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/04...agram.pdf?7395

[RC/DC_5000]

Mine would bind until I switched them. Its worth a try.