Updated 600L Dominator Review- New Servos in Kit

[RC/DC_5000]

I closed the other 600L review thread after I got my second 600L kit. This kit was fresh from the factory and has updated servos with serial numbers etched into the bottom case. They are fixed and worked great with no problems. This kit is now complete and a success. Impossible to build another helicopter this good for 1000 bucks. Having built two of these in a row, I learned a few things that I think would help someone else interested in the kit. HIGHLY recommend this kit now.

- Assemble the entire motor mount assembly outside of the frame first like a rough draft to understand how it fits together. This way, you can set the pinion precisely- making sure to hit the flat spot on the motor shaft and not put pressure on the bottom bracket bearing. Install the motor before the manual tells you to. If you wait, its a royal PITA to get it in. I promise that you don't want any motor mount doubts with this motor. It will pull a trees roots out of the ground.

- Put the black plastic canopy rings on the inside of the canopy. Not the outside. Not sure why Align says the outside. They work so much better and stay in place on the inside.

- Good Lord be careful with governor gain on the 750mx. Start very low at like 8 and see how it works. Depending on your batteries, you may get more than you bargained for and chew up the drivetrain.

- To set rate mode hover with Gpro, the carbon tail rod is too long to get a comfortable software center trim. Best to move the servo horn one notch toward the nose (away from 90). This still allows full travel and you can get rate mode hover without pegging rudder center trim in software.

-Don't forget to pin the boom behind the transmission- there is a threaded hole in the transmission and the boom to keep it secure. The screw is in the kit. This step is not in the manual.

-Set the ESC current limit to insensitive. As you can see in the log below, the motor on the 600 frame does most of its work around 20-40 amps. With the occasional blip into 120 amps. For 6000 watts!!! lol. But yea, with the current limit at default, you will get the occasional current warning. Not a soft cutoff. Just the warning beep. Insensitive moves it up to 140 amps for warning. This is not new and something Castle has recommended for this series motor for awhile.

This kit is the bomb. Pretty much the perfect 600. The Gpro is amazing. It may not have the high tech wizardry of the VBar.. but it flies awesome.

[xrayray]

What lipos did u say u were using? I might try to get just one more so i can cycle through 3 packs for less waiting between charges.

[RC/DC_5000]

I have the blue Turnigy 3300 60C and they are actually really nice. They balance nearly perfect at the same voltage per cell and the discharge is at least fairly legit.

Can't beat them for 50 bucks a pop. A 12s stick from Pulse would be 200 bucks. A 12s stick from Turnigy is 100 bucks.

[TR450ZS]

I have not seen this new fix mentioned anywhere else on the 600 subforum. But it is common knowledge the older version, like my 600EFL, had the silly Align head that does not clamp onto the mainshaft. The bolts that secure the washout arms do only that, and the head design is such that only the jesus bolt holds it to the main shaft, and can eventually work it's way loose. KDE were quick to develope an upgrade head that clamps onto the main shaft. But I saw a new 600L last week and noticed that the head has been redesigned, and the bolts which secure the washout arms now also serve to clamp the head to the mainshaft.

[Smoggie]

The 600L doesn't have washout arms, it uses the DFC type head which is exactly the same as previous versions of the 600 Pro DFC. It still uses a single jesus bold to fix it to the mainshaft, though I never had any problem with this when i was using the DFC head on my 600 Pro.

Like this:

But there is now an optional 'conventional' FBL head available separately that has the washout base integrated into the head like you describe.

[Smoggie]

Actually on looking at the optional head for the 600L... The washout base still does not clamp on the shaft. It's just the same as the old EFL and DFC head, retained by only a single jesus bolt. The washout arm bolts run parallel with the split in the base of the head rather than clamping accross the split:

600L optional head kit:


Old EFL head:

It's the exact same part.

What you maybe saw was the 700 FL head, which does use the washout arm bolts to clamp the head to the shaft:

700 FL head:

[TR450ZS]

No the new EFL head, I saw myself, has the split in the correct place now, I think that the pic used by Align is incorrect. The heli I saw belongs to a friend, I will get around to him the week after next and take a pic to post here. It was definately a 600 with the new EFL head with red trim colors. I had my EFL with me and we compared the 2, they are definately not the same.

[Smoggie]

Sounds like they must have modified the optional FL head design recently then.. But the 600L definitely does come with the DFC head as standard, not the FL.

[RC/DC_5000]

6467 Watts today with 14 degrees of pitch. I got this with 12* of timing and 12 pwm at 2400 rpm governed and current limit set to insensitive.

This was a pretty insane setup and really tested the limits of the Gpro. This motor has so much torque that it could be said, it has too much for this airframe. You really have to dial it in carefully so the motor does not jerk the helicopter around. The advanced timing really helps the lag in power delivery. Get ready to tune the swash to tail precomp. This motor wants to snap the tail around with the torque effect.

I think I'll settle with 13.5 degrees of pitch as 14 was flirting with the overcurrent beeps. And 14 is just kinda brutal.

Update: Just read in CC Edge HV software, that you can DISABLE current limiting for helicopters. It says this when clicking on the info tab for current limiting. Because helicopters spike briefly- you can just turn it off. Making sure that you know where its operating at of course and using high discharge batteries.

So I'm going back to 14* pitch lol. Its insane to fly it there. Without a big pitch load... this motor is just a waste of a ton of added rotating weight. Give it some work to do... and this thing is crazy to fly and well worth the added weight. Unboggable blade bark. Still got a 4 minute flight landing with 3.77 volts (2400 rpm). Batteries barely warm. Easily hold my hand on the motor. 3300 60C Turnigy Heavy Duty.

[xrayray]

Speaking of old 600 efl head, is it a different part than the 550 efl head v2? They both have integrated follower arm mounting but is one of them shorter than the other? Any part numbers please?

[MGPTWEGB]

I use the Tarot main block with the DFC blade holders.... AND yes it clamps onto the main shaft.... Very nice combo.

[FiLazer88]

I did my maiden flight today with the 600L, thing flew pretty darn smooth right out of the box with little tuning to the gpro. My only concern is heat. After a 7 minure flight of mostly just FFF and a few tic tocs and loops both the motor and the esc felt hot, ran 2400 rpm with gov gain at 12, off of two 3300mah packs. Like i could probably hold my hand on both for about 6 seconds before I had to pull it off. This is my first heli above 500 size, but on my 500L I can touch both the esc and motor after hard 3d and it only is a little hot. Is this normal for a motor of this size?

[RC/DC_5000]

I noticed my motor got pretty warm too. I was bit worried on my first flight as well. You may want to check your PWM and Timing. I recommend 0 timing for peak torque and 12 PWM.

I got my motor temps down with these settings through big air type 3D. I can easily hold my hand on the motor indefinitely.

[FiLazer88]

Originally Posted by RC/DC_5000

I noticed my motor got pretty warm too. I was bit worried on my first flight as well. You may want to check your PWM and Timing. I recommend 0 timing for peak torque and 12 PWM.

I got my motor temps down with these settings through big air type 3D. I can easily hold my hand on the motor indefinitely.

Ok great, I will give that a shot. What do you have the torque precomps at on your gpro? I was still getting a tail blowout on pitch pumps with precomp at about 75%. I am going out for a flight now at around 100% and seeing how that works. I'm running 2300 headspeed.

[RC/DC_5000]

From your post above Im assuming you're still using the Governor to get your 2300 rpm. I pretty much guarantee you that the CC governor will not work perfectly on that gearing for hardcore 3D. I worked with it for a month to no avail. Not enough load on that motor with that gearing. The governor might be okay for cruising around but it sucks for smack 3D.

Before you invest too much time in the precomps, I'd first get your batteries in the correct position for COG. Those batteries weigh a ton and greatly overpower any precomp ability. My collective to tail is also at 100 and my elevator is about halfway.

I'd also take it off governor mode until someone makes a 15T helical pinion. The tail is a million times better and the heli flies incredibly better without the governor. For now at least.

I flew it at 2300 rpm governed and 2300 rpms with endpoints. It was unbelievably better without the governor twitching and spitting the motor around.

[RC/DC_5000]

From your post above Im assuming you're still using the Governor to get your 2300 rpm. I pretty much guarantee you that the CC governor will not work perfectly on that gearing. I worked with it for a month to no avail. Not enough load on that motor with that gearing. The CC governor is pretty aggressive to keep RPM and a 700 class motor on 600 blades and low RPM is not enough load to keep the governor from jerking the tail around.

Before you invest too much time in the precomps, I'd first get your batteries in the correct position for COG. Those batteries weigh a ton and greatly overpower any precomp ability. I wanna say my elevator precomp is about halfway and my collective to tail is at 95,

I'd also take it off governor mode until someone makes a 15T helical pinion. The tail is a million times better and the heli flies incredibly better without the governor. (for now)

I posted some logs in other 600 threads..without the governor, the current dropped around 100A peak. With the governor- it could be as high as 140A. The tail works better, its way more powerful, more efficient and runs cooler with less current.

I'm the biggest fan of governors.. but if you try it without it, you'll see what I mean. Its just better.

[FiLazer88]

Originally Posted by RC/DC_5000

I'd also take it off governor mode until someone makes a 15T helical pinion. The tail is a million times better and the heli flies incredibly better without the governor. (for now)

I posted some logs in other 600 threads..without the governor, the current dropped around 100A peak. With the governor- it could be as high as 140A. The tail works better, its way more powerful, more efficient and runs cooler with less current.

I'm the biggest fan of governors.. but if you try it without it, you'll see what I mean. Its just better.

Forgive the noob question but how do you ensure the 2300 headspeed at endpoints without governor? Perhaps I need to invest in a tachometer. I don't want to mess around with setting endpoints and risk stripping a tail gear. I do want to give this a shot since I have had slight tail issues no matter what settings I use for the governor.

[RC/DC_5000]

I use the HeliRotor Speed App for Android phones. You can input your setup and desired headspeed and it will tell you what throttle % to use.

It says 2300 rpm needs 82% to achieve. The 750mx motor runs pretty darn good with a flat throttle curve but I use a very slight V curve with great success and no drivetrain damage yet.

I use plus one and plus two from center stick.

93 91 90 91 93

This V curve is good for 2500 rpm and is amazing for smack 3D. It keeps pretty constant rpm and feels so much more powerful. The tail couldn't be more stable and locked.

[pilot11]

Hi All,

After suffering with some powerless old lipo now I am testing the 3300 mAh 6S1P Gens Ace lipos. I made some test flight yesterday including some tic-tocs, piroflips, chaos with more collective. The downloaded CC log scared my first, but I see now you have similar logs here in the topic. What do you think? Is it acceptable for this machine?

Now I have pwm 8kHz and medium timing, 2400 rpm with 15 gov gain.

Take care, laszlo


A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

[Gladius]

What exactly is it that alarmed you? I don't see anything to worry about in that graph.