Question regarding head speed and tail authority

[GT86]

Originally Posted by ICNU

Personally, I think the only governor limitation seems to be the CC ESC. I ran the exact same setup on my prior FBL 500, which was the Scorpion 1600, slant gears and 12T pinion, but used a Hyperion ESC in governor mode instead of the CC. I had it set to auto motor timing, hobernor range 3 and it gave me 2850 RPM running a 38% flat curve in my DX8. I tached several HS using an optical tach dialing it in and it would have no trouble keeping the HS at in the 2900-3000+ range. I easily flew 7 minute circuits with this 2850 RPM setup, so I don't see any reason why I couldn't have locked it at 3000 and just cut my flight time down. Mind you I don't fly 3D, but my governor never bogged on me even in hard pitch pumps.

My electronics came down barely warm after flight, so it seems the limitation is with what the CC ESC wants to allow and not what the heli can actually do. I bought the CC for this heli for the data logging, but as of now I'm not so thrilled with what seems to be it deciding for me what my max governor settings will be despite me knowing what the heli can do.

Its worth trying. Would be interested to know how it works out. I've pretty much given up on the idea of a gov on this one, because I'm happy with the way its flying on fixed endpoints. After using a gov on all my other helis I thought I'd never go back to fep, but they work great on this heli.

On the other hand I haven't tried anything on it but the CC gov, so if something else works I'd give it a try.



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[Andy from Sandy]

On the other hand I haven't tried anything on it but the CC gov, so if something else works I'd give it a try.

Align stock ESC, mini v-bar and hyperion phase sensor.

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by GT86

Its worth trying. Would be interested to know how it works out. I've pretty much given up on the idea of a gov on this one, because I'm happy with the way its flying on fixed endpoints. After using a gov on all my other helis I thought I'd never go back to fep, but they work great on this heli.

On the other hand I haven't tried anything on it but the CC gov, so if something else works I'd give it a try.



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I notice everyone talks about the max RPM limitation with the CC governor in regards to the set RPM governor mode. I see in the software that there are also other more basic governor function which look to be the same as my Hyperion ESC where HS is only determined by the percentage of my flat throttle curve in my TX and pinion size.

Has anyone tried those functions to see what max RPM we can get? The only limits should be what you can get to on your TX throttle curve and leave a bit of headroom which is exactly what I did on my old setup. I could really care less about setting a specific RPM in the software as I can tach it myself very easily.

[GT86]

Originally Posted by ICNU

I notice everyone talks about the max RPM limitation with the CC governor in regards to the set RPM governor mode. I see in the software that there are also other more basic governor function which look to be the same as my Hyperion ESC where HS is only determined by the percentage of my flat throttle curve in my TX and pinion size.

Has anyone tried those functions to see what max RPM we can get? The only limits should be what you can get to on your TX throttle curve and leave a bit of headroom which is exactly what I did on my old setup. I could really care less about setting a specific RPM in the software as I can tach it myself very easily.

Set rpm uses the numbers you input to determine the speed, gov high uses your throttle curve to determine speed. But as far as I know both methods use the same algorithm for calculating what power should be delivered. I think you'd still run into the issue of your head speed being too high for the esc to govern so you'd be essentially running ungoverned. If I get time I'll play around with it. But again, since both modes use the same logic I don't think it'll work.

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[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by GT86

Set rpm uses the numbers you input to determine the speed, gov high uses your throttle curve to determine speed. But as far as I know both methods use the same algorithm for calculating what power should be delivered. I think you'd still run into the issue of your head speed being too high for the esc to govern so you'd be essentially running ungoverned. If I get time I'll play around with it. But again, since both modes use the same logic I don't think it'll work.

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Ok thanks. I'm almost to the point of firing mine up and will see for myself soon, but was just wondering because all the talk seemed to be about the set RPM mode.

[GT86]

Originally Posted by ICNU

Ok thanks. I'm almost to the point of firing mine up and will see for myself soon, but was just wondering because all the talk seemed to be about the set RPM mode.

Let us know if gov high mode works, I'd be interested to hear your results. I'm going to try it myself but I'm not going to have much flying time for the next couple of weeks.

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[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by GT86

Let us know if gov high mode works, I'd be interested to hear your results. I'm going to try it myself but I'm not going to have much flying time for the next couple of weeks.

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Sure will. I plan to try gov high mode with both 11 and 12T pinions and tach the head using a 90-95% flat curve to see what it will allow and still give me just a bit of headroom.

I'm used to flying my previous model at 2850 this way, so I want to see how this one will perform at 2900-3000 if I can get it.

[Steemo]

From memory CC esc need minimum 15% headroom for set rpm gov, so if Max head speed at 100% 22.2v and stock gear is 3300 rpm then Max you can govern to is going to be 2800rpm

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by Steemo

From memory CC esc need minimum 15% headroom for set rpm gov, so if Max head speed at 100% 22.2v and stock gear is 3300 rpm then Max you can govern to is going to be 2800rpm

Ok, so 15% is the magic number then. 2800 just won't be enough then. It looks like I will be joining the rest of the guys running 100% flat, no gov.

I have the Skookum 720 which has its own governor, but I'm not sure what headroom it will require since its a proactive governor, but we're dealing with simple gearing math here. I'm ordering a Hyperion phase sensor to give it go and see. We really need larger pinions to solve this.

[Steemo]

I know of at lest 2 or 3 ppl in here that will tell you I'm wrong but there is no reason you can't bolt on a 162T straight cut main gear to the pro hub and use a 17T pinion to give you the hear room you need to run CC gov.

In fact if you do some research you will find that helical gears were first widely used to reduce NVH levels in car drive trains and are actually slightly less efficient at delivering power and torque compared to the louder straight cut gear. They were popular NOT for performance enhancement, but for being quieter.

[mhills51]

I also thing they found a lot of this "noise" interferes with the electronics mostly fbl gyros.

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by Steemo

I know of at lest 2 or 3 ppl in here that will tell you I'm wrong but there is no reason you can't bolt on a 162T straight cut main gear to the pro hub and use a 17T pinion to give you the hear room you need to run CC gov.

In fact if you do some research you will find that helical gears were first widely used to reduce NVH levels in car drive trains and are actually slightly less efficient at delivering power and torque compared to the louder straight cut gear. They were popular NOT for performance enhancement, but for being quieter.

Its funny you say that, because I switched the straight main gear out in my old 500 for a slant gear trying to reduce noise and vibes during my initial SK720 setup which was getting too many vibes. The slant gear was CNC rather than injection molded and I had hoped it would run more true, which it did, but ultimately the vibes turned out to be a tail bearing issue and I would have been just fine with the old gear.

I never really thought of going in reverse on this one and going back to the straight gear.

[GT86]

Originally Posted by Steemo

I know of at lest 2 or 3 ppl in here that will tell you I'm wrong but there is no reason you can't bolt on a 162T straight cut main gear to the pro hub and use a 17T pinion to give you the hear room you need to run CC gov.

In fact if you do some research you will find that helical gears were first widely used to reduce NVH levels in car drive trains and are actually slightly less efficient at delivering power and torque compared to the louder straight cut gear. They were popular NOT for performance enhancement, but for being quieter.

Unless/until more helical pinion options become available, this is probably the only way to get the head speeds you need to run governed.

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by GT86

Unless/until more helical pinion options become available, this is probably the only way to get the head speeds you need to run governed.

I went digging through my parts bin and I have a straight cut gear and a 15 and 16T pinion.

It's a drop in replacement and no physical reason at all that it won't work. A 17T and a Hyperion phase sensor is on its way so I can get the RPM I need as well as use the much better governor in my Skookum unit. This should be fine until they come out with some larger slant pinions which may or may not be necessary if I can get it dialed in as is.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice.

[GT86]

Originally Posted by ICNU

I went digging through my parts bin and I have a straight cut gear and a 15 and 16T pinion.

It's a drop in replacement and no physical reason at all that it won't work. A 17T and a Hyperion phase sensor is on its way so I can get the RPM I need as well as use the much better governor in my Skookum unit. This should be fine until they come out with some larger slant pinions which may or may not be necessary if I can get it dialed in as is.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice.

Looking forward to hearing about your results. I still have a couple of the straight gears in one of the workbench drawers, but don't have a 17T pinion. May have to order one and give it a go.

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by GT86

Looking forward to hearing about your results. I still have a couple of the straight gears in one of the workbench drawers, but don't have a 17T pinion. May have to order one and give it a go.

I'm going to give at go with the CC governor first before setting up the SK governor. I want to see what sort of current draw I will be dealing with. I'll post back with details once I can give her a go.

[Xrayted]

Ok guys, my Pro is finished, but I have a question regarding the set RPM governor mode in my CC 75 ESC.

I retrofit this build with a straight cut 162T main and running a 17T pinion, so the software will allow me plenty of RPM and headroom to run the governor.

I see the three value boxes where I can choose various RPM setting, but why does it give me three completely different flat curve percentages to set in my TX even if I set all boxes to the same value? I placed 3000 in all boxes as I want my normal and stunt modes to be the same for now and it tells me I need to use 30% 70% and 100% respectively? This confuses me as to why one flat curve value wouldnt be the same since the RPM never changes?

Thanks guys!

[5488fletcher]

Originally Posted by ICNU

Ok guys, my Pro is finished, but I have a question regarding the set RPM governor mode in my CC 75 ESC.

I retrofit this build with a straight cut 162T main and running a 17T pinion, so the software will allow me plenty of RPM and headroom to run the governor.

I see the three value boxes where I can choose various RPM setting, but why does it give me three completely different flat curve percentages to set in my TX even if I set all boxes to the same value? I placed 3000 in all boxes as I want my normal and stunt modes to be the same for now and it tells me I need to use 30% 70% and 100% respectively? This confuses me as to why one flat curve value wouldnt be the same since the RPM never changes?

Thanks guys!

30 % runs box 1 rpm , 70% box 2 and 100 % box 3 rpm .

[barefootlifter]

The software just sites the "translating" so the controller just knows what rpm to shoot for for that throttle curve.

I highly recommend trying the governor high mode. Makes the rpm completely customisable at will in the transmitter by changing the flat curve. You can also simulate flat 100% by just setting a high curve such as 100% that just translates into an unobtainable rpm so you end up with 100% throttle. I have one fm1 set for 0, fm2 set to govern 2800, and fm3 set to be wide open throttle.

[Xrayted]

Originally Posted by 5488fletcher

30 % runs box 1 rpm , 70% box 2 and 100 % box 3 rpm .

I understand that what it says to do. It's just that doesn't make sense to me. This is my first time with a CC ESC and on my other ESCs, a simple flat curve was set and you would adjust this value to get whatever RPM you were after.

I guess I just don't get why 30% flat curve can produce the same RPM as 70% or 100%
In my mind doing this would mean the RPM would be change as I switched between modes and vurve settings, so my question was why wouldn't I use the same flat throttle curve setting for all modes if the RPM I set in all three boxes is the same?