TDR speed fuselage project

[billiano]

Give me a day or two.
Or sent me a pic to fwd them in order to get a quote.:rolleyes:

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

[mkovalcson]

This is really progressing well.

This is my train of thought currently.

Kosmik 200HV 14S and a 4540 wound for 14S
TP 65C 7S batteries 4400mah or better.
800mm main blades TBD (looks like a lot is going on right now) head speed of 2250-2300 rpm. Pitch 12 degrees? ( lots of room for iteration here )
96mm tail blades Rail ?
Get with Rob for those high strength thrust bearings and races.
Custom Fuse,
( BTW I'm thinking 4 NACA ducts )
Custom Frame
Custom castle gear
Custom canopy attachment
Custom landing gear
Custom tail fin

TODO: Find a source for some custom castle gears. Do you think Rob could also make some custom castle gears, or should I look into having that done?

I really think that having the tail tube down 5 degrees will have a substantial impact on the top speed of this heli and allowing a shorter tail is a huge benefit and should also reduce tail vibrations.

The fact another guy has lowered his tail with a universal joint at least proves that it is workable. Keep in mind that this modification will make horisontal tic tocs a bear and other maneuvers feel differently.

I'm going to do my homework on this and find out what the dynamic implications are of having the tail down 5 degrees from the main shaft starting with talking to a FBL company that I have a repore with.

Are we in agreement that this heli will be a single function heli and that we are only optimizing for the speed run.

This could be quite a showing next year if a few of us show up with different implementations of this design

Others may not be interested but I intend to try a tail pitch wing and start with 20 degrees and slowly work my way steeper as I get better at this. I think if it is optimized properly it will add stability and reduce porpoising issues. Then again it could be a complete failure, but I volunteer to be the guinea pig on this idea.

I could test out the idea out on my T550 It's scheduled to be a parts donor at this point anyway

I officially have all the motivation I need to really work on my flying skills. It's time to talk with my near by neighbor with the landing field on his property

My track record to date is not good enough for me to feel comfortable putting so much custom hardware in the air. I really need to have this committed to instincts. Time to practice practice practice

BTW I have an idea that I mentioned by PM to Marcos a while back... It looks a bit weird, but for me at this point it really helps a LOT.... If all goes well, I'll bring a few extra with me for other speed players to try. ( Don't worry, nothing illegal and not a drug or anything like that )

[Mercuriell]

Don't underestimate the difficulty with producing castle/bevel gears. Material is critical as is the cut - both Henseleit and Minicopter I am sure both use an outsourced German gear cutter to p-roduce their taIL gears. Kasama has been trying for a year to get a decent crown/pinion tail gear combo from a Chinese gear cutter. I think effort would be better spent on the fuse/canopy streamlining then changing the tail gears IMHO

[donskills]

John, that is good info. I have thought about gears many times during the years but never even bothered to find out how or how much as far as having some cut. This forum is like a well oiled research department! I do have one more little thought of an experiment and that is leave the whole drive train lay out as is but try to find a way of moving both packs to the front of the mechanics in some neat way and still allow air flow passed the motor. That way the 800 boom could be used without the CG suffering too much. I will take a look at that!

[billiano]

I have already fwd the pics of the speed body ...

But I guess that it would be easier to send them a light but sturdy body of hard foam in full size

[donskills]

Greets Bill, judging by the quality of their work that I saw on FaceBook that seems to be the ticket. Hopefully they can offer us a guestimate on a price from the pics knowing the dimensions of the fuse as a whole!

[jamin_00]

Originally Posted by donskills

Greets Bill, judging by the quality of their work that I saw on FaceBook that seems to be the ticket. Hopefully they can offer us a guestimate on a price from the pics knowing the dimensions of the fuse as a whole!

Hope so as I want a fuse for my TDR

[billiano]

I've already ask them for an estimated price
a.in fiberglass or
b. in full carbon and
of course each one custom airbrushed....

[donskills]

I am quite confident we will come up with at least one and judging by price and interest I do no not plan to stop there! I have been wanting to get into complex modeling for a good while just for these purposes and have finally found a way that is quick and really flexible!

[billiano]

Since I have the opportunity to have one
I will step on the boat......

[donskills]

Greets fellow freaks! I have been a bit busy with work bu have managed to sit down with the TDR frame CAD files I have but have yet to come up with a way to change the layout of the battery placement beyond bending the front part upwards. I took the dimensions of the TP 4400mah 7S packs as a guide line. and they are size wise not too much bigger than the average packs we use. It feels like I am trying to reinvent the wheel. Does anybody have any ideas or should I just go on with Dr.Ralphs idea? 2Mark, any news on cutting a new crown gear?

[mkovalcson]

I hate to say it but I'm getting cold feet on the crown gear. Getting it built isn't the problem, but there could be lots of unintended side effects, resonances etc..

Also the change in angle may require reshaping the angle of the teeth and not just their radial slant. It's possible that the umbrella would need to be reworked as well.

Ironically I'm thinking that a universal joint between the intermediate gear and TT may be a better more fool proof idea. I've already found a solid universal joint that would work with 10mm shafts, so we would need a 10mm shaft attachment instead of the metal umbrella for this to work.

Unfortunately for a universal joint to work, the drivetrain layout is all wrong. We would need the maingear up higher and the bottom mainbearing higher so that the bottom of the 10mm shaft is exposed at the bottom for the universal joint to attach to and then connect to the boom. Now we are talking about some serious rearrangement of the drive train and probable lowering of the boom.

Now I can be as ambitious as an anyone, but Jan put a lot of thought probably a number of iterations to get the TDR drive train working well. I don't think we collectively are going to want to spend the time and effort to do radical redesigns here.

One thing I would HIGHLY suggest with this project is that we make the frames first and verify that we can make a working helicopter that flies properly with them before having canopy molds made to fit the frame. If changes need to be made to the frames that will be much cheaper to get worked out early and then build the canopy.

[F1 Rocket]

Originally Posted by donskills

It feels like I am trying to reinvent the wheel.

IMO at this point you need to decide if you are designing a fuselage that fits the TDR mechanics or a new machine altogether. Even small changes tend to propagate more changes downstream. My advise is to build the smallest, cleanest fuselage around the existing mechanics, styled to look to way you want. Will it be the fastest? Maybe yes, maybe no but it will bring a smile to your face every time you fly it because it will have come from your mind

Danny

[F1 Rocket]

Originally Posted by mkovalcson

Now I can be as ambitious as an anyone, but Jan put a lot of thought probably a number of iterations to get the TDR drive train working well. I don't think we collectively are going to want to spend the time and effort to do radical redesigns here.

Actually this is how the Banshee came about. A coupe of guys who thought they had a better way to go faster It would be a fun project as long as everyone involved understands the amount of effort something like this takes.

Danny

[F1 Rocket]

Odd double post

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by mkovalcson

Ironically I'm thinking that a universal joint between the intermediate gear and TT may be a better more fool proof idea. I've already found a solid universal joint that would work with 10mm shafts, so we would need a 10mm shaft attachment instead of the metal umbrella for this to work.

Why not put the uni joint in the TT? The pics I have seen seem to show a fair amount of room there?

[donskills]

I personally feel reluctant to mess with the TDR drive train. I suspect a great amount of work not to speak of experience has gone into its conception and it is extremely well proven. More in the spirit of fun, educaton and lending my know how to a great bunch of guys am I doing this!! A clean fuse was my original plan and one I will definitely complete its design. The speed adaption with the new lower frame is also to be completed. As I mentioned earlier, just going fast on a stock TDR is more than enough for me and the challenge of designing another speed fuse is what I am in this for. I will keep polishing the straight and "angled" fuse with the new lower frame and take it from there.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by F1 Rocket

Actually this is how the Banshee came about. A coupe of guys who thought they had a better way to go faster It would be a fun project as long as everyone involved understands the amount of effort something like this takes.

Danny

The trickle down can get out of hand.

I know that I was thinking that if you go to a universal joint that ideally you would be able to swing the boom and try different angles or even have the tail angle trimmable in flight. Then I was thinking trimable winglets on the body and tail to generate a little lift and to help keep it stable. Pretty soon you've add a great deal of weight and complexity and are messing with aerodynamic properties that all interact with each other.

In concept all of these ideas could work, but some might not and the ones that did would require lots of R&D and iteration. There would also be additional points of failure in flight.

Suddenly the light weight soap bar approach starts to look a lot better

[Alekoy]

Any idea what the side-lean would be with the tail even lower down from the main rotor?

[donskills]

Alekoy, do you mean angle of attack when you say side lean? The angle the whole helicopter leans forward when travelling at speed?