protos carbon post build questions

[nyc863]

Alright I'm all done. couple of things..

1. is it ok to CA those washers to the SAB blades? I couldn't get em lined up right..

2. My tail grips/spindle .. the one with the four bearings (no thrust bearings). After it is mounted, and the two blade-grip bolts and washers are in, I can pull the tail grips out about 2mm to a stop, or push them in about 2mm till a stop. Obviously I am running them with them pulled out, but is having that much possible play (not really play as you need some force to move them) ... ok?

3. The whole belt/one way system .. with no blades, if I hold the motor & give the head a big twist, it'll only spin 180 degrees before friction stops it. This feels like a lot of friction ..mostly due to the belt, I think. Is that normal? after you stop your engine, do the blades slow down more quickly than typical? Should I have greased the one-way bearing?

4. Is the MSH ESC ok out of the box? or I need to adjust the default program? how is governor on it? msheli website appears to be down, and they don't give you the MSH manual on the CD. Doh!

Overall it was an enjoyable build.. kind of annoying that the parts list on each page doesn't bother saying the quantity required of each bit for that page, and several places you have to be careful measuring very similar parts used on the same page.

With the carbon kit, it is a bit harder to locate the MSH esc, and there is no hidden area for running wires.

One of my hex screws had a filled in head to it. I was also missing a fairly big part, which I previously posted about, and had extra parts after the build was done: six nuts, four ball links, and two of those smaller plastic swing arms in the head... apart from the bag marked "spares".

The manual had something about using CA on the tail pulley but the kit came with a complete pulley there.. that was the only mistake I could see.

I'm running it with 6s, and a z-power KV 850 motor, spartan gyro and MKS servos which seem good, but chatter constantly to themselves.

[dodgey]

Originally Posted by nyc863

Alright I'm all done. couple of things..

1. is it ok to CA those washers to the SAB blades? I couldn't get em lined up right..

2. My tail grips/spindle .. the one with the four bearings (no thrust bearings). After it is mounted, and the two blade-grip bolts and washers are in, I can pull the tail grips out about 2mm to a stop, or push them in about 2mm till a stop. Obviously I am running them with them pulled out, but is having that much possible play (not really play as you need some force to move them) ... ok?

3. The whole belt/one way system .. with no blades, if I hold the motor & give the head a big twist, it'll only spin 180 degrees before friction stops it. This feels like a lot of friction ..mostly due to the belt, I think. Is that normal? after you stop your engine, do the blades slow down more quickly than typical? Should I have greased the one-way bearing?

4. Is the MSH ESC ok out of the box? or I need to adjust the default program? how is governor on it? msheli website appears to be down, and they don't give you the MSH manual on the CD. Doh!

Overall it was an enjoyable build.. kind of annoying that the parts list on each page doesn't bother saying the quantity required of each bit for that page, and several places you have to be careful measuring very similar parts used on the same page.

With the carbon kit, it is a bit harder to locate the MSH esc, and there is no hidden area for running wires.

One of my hex screws had a filled in head to it. I was also missing a fairly big part, which I previously posted about, and had extra parts after the build was done: six nuts, four ball links, and two of those smaller plastic swing arms in the head... apart from the bag marked "spares".

The manual had something about using CA on the tail pulley but the kit came with a complete pulley there.. that was the only mistake I could see.

I'm running it with 6s, and a z-power KV 850 motor, spartan gyro and MKS servos which seem good, but chatter constantly to themselves.

1) As you push the blade in the gip - slide the washers in at the same time - there is a technique to it which you get over time - also a small flat screwdriver helps tweaking their position. Wiggle the bolt too to "help" the washers centralise. I do the top 1st, then the bottom.

3) It's pretty normal. Seems to loosen up a bit after a few packs. The weight of the blades adds a whole lot of intertia. Don't lube your one-way - it'll most likely slip. Also make sure you have not pushed the whole pinion and bearing assembly to far down the adapter shaft - if you do the bottom bearing fouls and drags.

4) MSH Esc - disable LVC, disable Gov. - I put mine in with the caps at the top - the wires have to come out through the top battery mount hole but it's no problem with the packs in place - the velcro lifts the packs up a bit. This way the caps are protected in a nose down crash.

[Tail boom]

Hi,



1. is it ok to CA those washers to the SAB blades? I couldn't get em lined up right..

I had no probs whatsoever to get this done without CA.


2. My tail grips/spindle .. the one with the four bearings (no thrust bearings). After it is mounted, and the two blade-grip bolts and washers are in, I can pull the tail grips out about 2mm to a stop, or push them in about 2mm till a stop. Obviously I am running them with them pulled out, but is having that much possible play (not really play as you need some force to move them) ... ok?

I have the same effect. Seems to be ok, since centrifugal force pulls them out anyhow.



4. Is the MSH ESC ok out of the box? or I need to adjust the default program? how is governor on it? msheli website appears to be down, and they don't give you the MSH manual on the CD. Doh!

The only thing I have changed it deactivated the governor. I run a 100-90-100 throttle curve for 3D mode, and a 100-85-100 curve for sport flying, and 100-80-100 for normal mode. All on the 14T pinion and stock motor and stock ESC. The LVC works great (hit it just two times so far, and the packs came down with approx. 3.4V-3.5V per cell). I guess the true cut-off is between 3.0V and 3.2V per cell (it is not documented, I would have to measure it with my CellDiAG X6 ...).


Best,
Frank

[whisperdancer]

Originally Posted by nyc863

2. My tail grips/spindle .. the one with the four bearings (no thrust bearings). After it is mounted, and the two blade-grip bolts and washers are in, I can pull the tail grips out about 2mm to a stop, or push them in about 2mm till a stop. Obviously I am running them with them pulled out, but is having that much possible play (not really play as you need some force to move them) ... ok?

3. The whole belt/one way system .. with no blades, if I hold the motor & give the head a big twist, it'll only spin 180 degrees before friction stops it. This feels like a lot of friction ..mostly due to the belt, I think. Is that normal? after you stop your engine, do the blades slow down more quickly than typical? Should I have greased the one-way bearing?

2. I didn't even knew it was like that! Mine actually seem to come out much more than 2mm...

3. Don't worry about the friction. It's just the belt drive system. It does autos much better than any T-Rex 500, even with torque tube.

[EricW]

Never grease the oneway bearing!
Best is to leave it as is, no oil, nothing, works great without.
a oneway bearing has almost 0 friction when it's free.
Grease makes it stick and slip.
Gear systems from head to tail are great when driven by a motor or engine, but when the forces go in different directions, unstable load, they are much less efficient than a belt system.

[nyc863]

ok thanks!!

maiden today.

[nyc863]

well i did the maiden flight.

Discovered the belt was over the tail the wrong way.. the twist is opposite to what it should be. So my first question is.. is it vital to get that right? gyro setup and rudder were all ok. Just didn't check the tail rotor direction was "standard". Duh.

second question: in idle-up, after the soft start finished being soft .. the spool up was so violent the tail kicked 45 degrees right ... I had to end the experiment rapidly and landed with throttle hold on. In normal mode (0-25-50-75-100 throttle and 45-45-50-75-100 pitch), I could lift off and hover and the gyro held. So my question is, are there any USB settings recommended for the Spartan on the protos? or should I get the tail rotating the right direction before deciding whether the Spartan needs tweaking?

thanks!

[trickybit]

Regarding tail rotation, the theory is that rotating the tail blade upwards into the downwash of the main rotor would give it better purchase. I bet it matters but only at the limits. (And there's the old question: so now I get less tail control when inverted??)

But if you set the rest of the tail up correctly, this would also mean you've switched your tail control from trailing edge to leading edge. I don't know much about that stuff, but I'd guess it matters more than the downdraft.

Tear it down... take the lesson...

[nyc863]

I'll swap it, I quite like working on the protos it is well thought out.

I noticed the boom has a silver exposed end now, the end that goes into the boom block, does that remove the need to ground it to the frame?

[HighFreq]

Not yet, those booms are the new version and ready for the conductive clamp that will be released in sept.




Corrado

[vicrc]

I got to hand it to you Corrado, you guys are amazing! This is the first ever heard of in my book about fixing static problems on a heli. This kind of problems are usually ignored by other manufacturers! Good job man and thanks for updating and making the Protos 'The Perfect Heli'!

[nyc863]

I unscrewed the tail and twisted the belt the right way, very easy.. and all my tension was already set so I was happy not to have to remove the head. Afterwards free rotation was a little easier. Before, if I spun the head, the engine would turn unless I held it. Now it doesn't and there is less resistance. So I guess running the belt backward does have consequences beyond just a tail that doesn't work great.

Also now my tail slider bracket @ 90 degrees gives the right starting pitch on the blades..

I also fixed some built-in slop in the tail: I noticed that the tail slider arm, the U shaped part that infinity hobbies sells a CNC upgrade for, had some wiggle. I found most of the wiggle was due to the bolt that goes through the tube, (that tube that is in the two bearings) .. that bolt isn't fat enough, so the whole slider assembly has some east-west wiggle as the tube, and assembly, rocks back and forth on the bolt.

so I wrapped the bolt with one layer of that thin postal packing tape, just about 5mm wide strip and right in the middle leaving thread at top and bottom, just one or one and half layers. And the wrapped was such that screwing in the bolt tightens the wrapping not undoes it.

Then inserted the bolt again (with some difficulty now, as it is fatter) and presto.. no wiggle anymore.. even without the nut on & tightened up.. Now operating the whole tail slider from the servo end of the rod is really nice and smooth, (I also sized the links with that tool) and the slightest rod movement back and forth translates to slight back and forth pitch. Beautiful.

..not that whatever slop in the assembled tail was much to start with, it just was an easy improvement..

now to go and crash it and make everything sloppy.