HK-4025 12N8P Winding Project

[Stolla]

Originally Posted by powercroco

for 12N8P winding I use this mode:

www.powerditto.de/schema12N8P.html


you have to wind it with all 3 wires at the same time, but it gives the shortest wires and so the lowest internal resistance in winding.

I don't know any mode for 12N8P which is better windable from the middle, so I can't understand your question.

Sorry Ralph i confused the issue, i was referring to 12n 10pole, But a method when starting in the middle of the wire it can be wind in to out on both slots for yy. So my question being for 12n10pole yy starting from the middle or centre of the winding wire, any reason why you guys dont do it as it's so much easier not to thread back on the second slot

[Blades_Cuts]

Originally Posted by Stolla

Sorry Ralph i confused the issue, i was referring to 12n 10pole, But a method when starting in the middle of the wire it can be wind in to out on both slots for yy. So my question being for 12n10pole yy starting from the middle or centre of the winding wire, any reason why you guys dont do it as it's so much easier not to thread back on the second slot

These are variants that may be decided according to your own preference, and purpose. Both will run fine if done properly.

I may also have to insist, ask the question in the appropriate thread, if there's not one yet, create a new topic. Mr. Okon have been doing this for over a decade, and have built a wealth of knowledge base. Imagine the frustration he's having, to have been always being addressed rudimentary questions that have been answered answered in great details on his website.

We should be posting pictures by now and telling about our findings with our experiment. Start with basic schemes. Don't be too concerned about complex schemes for now. You will advance to that level in time.

[Stolla]

Your right i replied in motor data

[HeliFX]

Here is a WIP on my 4025 12N8P new FG plates.
Still needs beveled edges.

winding is next.
Have two options
YY ABCx4 or YY ABC with half turns (4.5T)

[ZuvieleTeile]

Nice, nice,
did you get the FG plates from esprit?
I tried it there, but hey have been out of stock.
I got mine form McMaster-Carr. 12 x12 x 1/32 for $ 4.33 each.

[HeliFX]

no esprit didn't have it in stock but local shop had them.

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

Nice, nice,
did you get the FG plates from esprit?
I tried it there, but hey have been out of stock.
I got mine form McMaster-Carr. 12 x12 x 1/32 for $ 4.33 each.

[powercroco]

here you egt the schematics.

first:
normal 12N8P (ABC ABC ABC ABC )with complete turns and short transitions winded for Y.

seond:
half or someting + 0,5 turns (4,5 ) winded with short transitions for Y

third:
half or someting + 0,5 turns winded for YY conction.
ABCABC II ABCABC
the incomming left hand side, the connecting pionts (star points) on the right hand side,

I hope. you will get it now.

[HeliFX]

powercroco thanks very helpful appreciate the feedback
yes I completed a test with half turns with short transitions YY. the half turns should better hit my Kv target much closer.

will begin winding 1.6 mm soon.

[-JB-]

Hey guys,

today i was testflying my 4025-1180 4.5+4.5 @ 1.7 YY
Holy cow got peaks with 4,3KW
At 200A Peak the CC ICE100 quitted and i had to Autorot down from 5m above ground..... without crash
Next Lipo everything went fine again and i tried to steer a bit smoother but still hit the 4KW
Temperature was quite fine Motor touchable around 40-45°C Outside around 10°C

Setup was:
T-Rex 550 3G V1 supercombo
550mm Blattschmied Blackline FBL (Mavvrik...)
HS4025-1180
Pinion/Maingear: 17/170 --> looking forward to 12or13/112 M1 Helical from T-Rex700

have a look at my logs with castle logview

[HeliFX]

Glad to see you here.

sounds like beast.

What RPM where running on the 550 ?
also curious as what 6S packs did you test with ?

Originally Posted by -JB-

Hey guys,

today i was testflying my 4025-1180 4.5+4.5 @ 1.7 YY
Holy cow got peaks with 4,3KW
At 200A Peak the CC ICE100 quitted and i had to Autorot down from 5m above ground..... without crash
Next Lipo everything went fine again and i tried to steer a bit smoother but still hit the 4KW
Temperature was quite fine Motor touchable around 40-45°C Outside around 10°C

Setup was:
T-Rex 550 3G V1 supercombo
550mm Blattschmied Blackline FBL (Mavvrik...)
HS4025-1180
Pinion/Maingear: 17/170 --> looking forward to 12or13/112 M1 Helical from T-Rex700

have a look at my logs with castle logview

[Stolla]

personally I found that you can't reap the true benefits from a rewinded 4025 on 6s, its a lipo killer, on a heli of course. I had one on my logo 600 6s but as soon I geared it to have the jive at the recommended 65 percent for the gov headroom, it just ate the lipo, a hyperion 45c in this case, 65c may of course work better but I'd advise higher cell count if possible or pinion it down. These things are like little peranas they will eat and digest anything and everything you throw at them!

[HeliFX]

naturally a 12S would be much more efficient and elegant in its setup which help reduce or halve those intense Amp peaks.

6S has those high spike peaks to contended with I would imagine with one these rewinded scorpions can certainly really work those lipos !

How much experimenting with gear ratio did you manage ?

Did you find you need to pinion down a lot from your previous stock motor ?

[-JB-]

Lipo's are the Turnigy6s5000 40/50C now the second season.
Headspeed was low 1900 and high 2200 but have a look at the Logs now that i managed to attatch them to the post

Greetz

[Stolla]

Originally Posted by HeliFX

naturally a 12S would be much more efficient and elegant in its setup which help reduce or halve those intense Amp peaks.

6S has those high spike peaks to contended with I would imagine with one these rewinded scorpions can certainly really work those lipos !

How much experimenting with gear ratio did you manage ?

Did you find you need to pinion down a lot from your previous stock motor ?

I just dropped one t on pinion so the jive ran at about 73 prevent tx throttle, not ideal for best governing but it worked well nonetheless, I'd say better than stock but not by as much as anticipated, the lipos being the restricting factor, I reckon 6s 65c on a 550 size may just cut it depends obviously on the gov, the jive being such a good gov will extract everything from motor and lipo to keep rpm constant, over 70 percent the motor will bog as the jive doesn't have enough headroom,, but since the pinion is smaller amp peaks are lower.I only fly 12s on my rewinded heli's from 50 size and upwards after my experience with the 6s setup

[HeliFX]

something that I found that I'm concern with regarding brocott wire diameter.
I ordered a spool 1.6 mm did some test winding which turned out pretty good however I found it really difficult. Measured the wire and its closer to 1.7 mm

measured my second spool marked 1.5 mm and its closer to 1.6 mm what the hell.
Does brocott know how to measure or this common or a gross error on there part?

[ZuvieleTeile]

Brocott gives you the real copper diameter and does not include the 2 layer insulation . . .

[HeliFX]

so if someone on the forum did a 1.6 mm winding is that referring to copper or the actually O.D of wire ?
I would you get an accurate copper %

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

Brocott gives you the real copper diameter and does not include the 2 layer insulation . . .

[Stolla]

copper, od measurement is for sissies!

[HeliFX]

yeah but my fingers tell a different story

Originally Posted by Stolla

copper, od measurement is for sissies!

[HeliFX]

Here a really crappy blurry photo -- sorry

this is my first attempt more a practice run. Its amazing what you discover when you start winding. This wire O.D 1.68 plus about 0.3 of nomex on either side.
no room for error.

I'm starting over again. trying to find my rhythm but figured out.

may have a method to producing a much cleaner and easier method.

I'll report back.