Powering 550SX

[crashjack]

I'm getting close to purchasing my 500 - 550 heli. I've narrowed my choices down to the 550SX, Goblin 500 (planning to stretch to swing 550 blades), and Gaui X5. I'll most likely use an AR7200bx or 7300bx FBL controller. I've got some ideas on servos, but would like some recommendations on ESC, BEC, and size of lipos.

I'll never be a heavy 3D pilot and consider myself a sport pilot in training. I currently have a Phoenix Edge Lite 50 on my 450 and like the data logging and auto-bailout features (though I don't actually use auto-bailout on my 450). The governor seems to work fine, and I've had no problems using the internal BEC. That being said, I realize there isn't a Castle ESC with both internal BEC and data logging that would be appropriate for a 550. I'm fine with an external BEC or possibly a 2S lipo, but think the BEC might be simpler. I like the ability to use the FBL's governor, though this isn't real important as I doubt the AR7200/7300 will ever have a governor.

Simply, I'm interested in what others are using. I'm also thinking about stretching to run 600 blades at some point in the future. Therefore, I would like to take this into consideration with my initial purchases and set-up. I also want properly-sized lipos, though weight is a big issue for me, which is the major reason for my three heli choices. Since stretching would be down the road and maybe never, I'm less worried about the lipos being appropriate for the stretch, but it would be a nice benefit.

[NLTRex]

Hi, one of my helis is a 550sx.. I use the kontronic 100lv with built in BEC which works great. The governor on the kontronic is awesome.. I use gens ace 45c 5000 packs which are great for the Heli.

[crashjack]

I know the Konotronics are supposed to be great with a great governor. My main issue is the lack of data logging. To get that feature, you've got to pay the big bucks. I also wondered if 100A might be borderline for a 6S 550SX, especially if stretched. I was thinking about something in the 120-130A range but wasn't sure about fitting. Will pretty much any 120-130A ESC fit?

Regarding lipos, will pretty much all 5000mah lipos fit? Any reason to bump the mah up to 5300 or so?

[pwood]

Hi

I have a Stock Logo 550sx. It has 550 blades, Scorpion 4025-1100 and YGE 90 LV esc.

The esc cones down fairly warm and the motor is quite hot, but i live in Dubai where everything is HOT...

The combo works VERY well.

I have just added the V/A meter to do telemetry to my V Control radio. It is measuring amp spikes of around 120A, on a hard flight.

Regards
Paul

[crashjack]

Where I live, it gets pretty hot (typically not as hot as Dubai), but it gets a lot more humid. I don't fly that hard and probably never will. However, I sometimes have to take a flight almost immediately after another due to time constraints. I would rather just not have to worry about it, even if it means spending a few extra bucks.

[hemp]

Given your desires and stated concerns, I would suggest a Castle Edge 130 or Edge HV 120 ESC running VBar governor. The white AUX wire provides phase data for the external gov, and they play nicely together.

I know you want to run an AR7200BX, but I have to recommend against it. Not that there's anything wrong with BeastX, per se, just that your 550sx will fly beautifully on VBar with virtually no tuning (using recommended gains for the 550) and I think you will appreciate how a Mini VBar Pro really takes advantage of the inherent smoothness of Logo models and the governor is significantly better than Castle's.

As for receiver power, I wouldn't trust that to an internal BEC unless it's Kontronik. If you want an external BEC, you could run Castle BEC Pro or WR Hercules BEC, which are both decent, or if you want more assurance the Gryphon Quasar BEC is excellent. Of course the simplest way to guarantee you never brown out is to run a receiver pack, which is pretty easy on Logos, just dual-lock a small (1350mAh) 2S pack in the sensor tray below the tail servo. But that requires either HV servos or a voltage regulator.

The combo Scorpion motor works well and is the simplest fit. The output shaft is the correct length and diameter for stock Mod .7 gearing and the mounting pattern is correct.

The Logo 550sx is such a light model that battery weight isn't a concern. I run bulky 70C 5500mAh HV packs in mine and it doesn't blink. My preference is a 4800-5000mAh pack for long flight times while leaving a little working room inside the compartment. I run and recommend Revolectrix Diamond Label or Silver HV packs, but other high quality packs will do the job also.

[crashjack]

Honestly, I don't really understand how Vbar works. If you get a combo kit, you get a 5.3 Express, but it doesn't state whether it is Blueline or Silverline. I also don't know how you upgrade to "Pro" or what the differences are between Blueline, Silverline, Express, and Pro.

Right or wrong, I'm nervous about running two satellites instead of a full-receiver and a satellite, which the AR7200bx gives me. I also realize that I can use a full-receiver and a satellite with a different FBL, but it just adds more "stuff". Finally, I've pretty much learned the Beastx programming with my 450. Changing FBLs creates a new learning curve.

All that being said, I'm open to about anything as long as the money isn't hugely different.

[hemp]

Originally Posted by crashjack

Honestly, I don't really understand how Vbar works. If you get a combo kit, you get a 5.3 Express, but it doesn't state whether it is Blueline or Silverline.

The latest VBar hardware comes in two flavors: Mini VBar (blue) or Fullsize VBar (silverline). Those are the only options that will come in a new combo.

Express versus Pro is just a software upgrade. It costs around $44 (35,00 EUR) and can be applied to any Express model VBar running version 5 or later (new VBars will come with v5.3 installed.) Mikado USA offers VBar Pro SKUs which are the same thing but they've manually applied the Pro firmware update for you - because people were asking for it.

For a Logo 550sx, I would run a Mini VBar. There are a few limitations of the mini, which include a less capable power bus and fewer servo ports, plus some other stuff that probably won't impact you.

The fullsize VBars have a separate sensor that is connected by a servo wire. It can be located places where mounting the mainboard would create access problems, which is a benefit for certain models / setups.

Originally Posted by crashjack

Right or wrong, I'm nervous about running two satellites instead of a full-receiver and a satellite

Just going to have to get over that. lol Having a separate satellite is superior since you can optimally locate the two antennas at a perfect 90 degree angle for dual-diversity, which is harder to achieve using the integrated ARBX antenna.

Originally Posted by crashjack

I'm open to about anything as long as the money isn't hugely different.

Well they're pretty close. A Mini VBar Pro runs about $270 (and Mikado USA is running 10% off this weekend.) AR7200BX runs about $240. Then you have to add two sats or one, respectively. Mikado USA sells those as well and they'd be included in the sale.

[hemp]

Originally Posted by crashjack

I've pretty much learned the Beastx programming with my 450. Changing FBLs creates a new learning curve.

I went through the same thought process when I moved up from my Blade 450Xs to a Logo 550sx. Everything in my gut told me I should just stick with BeastX since I knew it .. but people I trusted told me that was a mistake. I listened to them and I'm glad I did.

Coming from BeastX, learning VBar really wasn't hard. The fundamentals are similar between the various FBL units, what changes is the terminology and fine tuning. Sort of like learning languages, once you learn a second one, the third, fourth, and fifth come a lot quicker/easier.

[crashjack]

I looked at the mini-Vbar and have a question. If using an external BEC and HV servos, I'll have to plug the throttle cable from the ESC and the 2 BEC cables into the Vbar. Is there room for all?

[hemp]

Originally Posted by crashjack

I looked at the mini-Vbar and have a question. If using an external BEC and HV servos, I'll have to plug the throttle cable from the ESC and the 2 BEC cables into the Vbar. Is there room for all?

You'll probably end up one port shy of what you need. It's not a problem though, just add a Y connector and piggyback one of the BEC cables with a cyclic plug.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by crashjack

I know the Konotronics are supposed to be great with a great governor. My main issue is the lack of data logging. To get that feature, you've got to pay the big bucks. I also wondered if 100A might be borderline for a 6S 550SX, especially if stretched. I was thinking about something in the 120-130A range but wasn't sure about fitting. Will pretty much any 120-130A ESC fit?

Regarding lipos, will pretty much all 5000mah lipos fit? Any reason to bump the mah up to 5300 or so?

FYI, The Jive 100LV is actually rated for up to 200A with the heatsink installed. I've never had a thermal or any issues with my 100LV with it installed on a Trex 550E, Synergy E5, or 550SX.

To get logging from the Jive you can get a JLog 2.6 and that will also pass telemetry back to any system you have ( except VBar control )

I'm running the GA 45C 5300mah batteries in mine and they are doing very well.
I'm only using the rear strap as shown in the picture below.

[crashjack]

Originally Posted by mkovalcson

FYI, The Jive 100LV is actually rated for up to 200A with the heatsink installed. I've never had a thermal or any issues with my 100LV with it installed on a Trex 550E, Synergy E5, or 550SX.

To get logging from the Jive you can get a JLog 2.6 and that will also pass telemetry back to any system you have ( except VBar control

I'm running the GA 45C 5300mah batteries in mine and they are doing very well.
I'm only using the rear strap as shown in the picture below.

Do you use the internal BEC? One nice thing about the Jive is simplicity in wiring. I really need to understand telemetry better. I'm more interested in seeing information on my PC after the fact than seeing real time information on my transmitter. Setting an alarm for lipo voltage would be nice, but I can't see myself using much of the other info during flight as I really need my reading glasses to see the screen very well, and I'm not good enough to take my eyes off the heli anyway.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by crashjack

Do you use the internal BEC? One nice thing about the Jive is simplicity in wiring. I really need to understand telemetry better. I'm more interested in seeing information on my PC after the fact than seeing real time information on my transmitter. Setting an alarm for lipo voltage would be nice, but I can't see myself using much of the other info during flight as I really need my reading glasses to see the screen very well, and I'm not good enough to take my eyes off the heli anyway.

Yes I use the internal BEC and have never had a problem with it driving Futaba 451's and even JR 8717's a while ago.

The JLog device writes all the ESC information to an SD card that you can graph and examine on your PC after the fact. That was the JLog's original purpose in life.

My transmitter reads out the telemetry verbally, with the feature most liked being mah alarming instead of using a timer. So you find out when the battery is drained to 25% for example get an alarm and land. Mine tells me 40% 30% and 25% repeats "Land Now".

At one point I had my TX programmed to read off the telemetry values Headspeed, mah used, ESC temperature when ever I tilted my transmitter to the side, but I went back to a switch.

The Jive 100LV is the simplest solution in terms of wiring, soldering and setup and has proven to be very reliable. Mine has been doing a great job since 2011.

[crashjack]

Do you know the gauge of the wires from ESC to battery on the Jive 100lv? I need to figure out my connectors.

[tjmarti]

Looks like 10 gauge, I use ec5 connectors on mine.

[mkovalcson]

Originally Posted by crashjack

Do you know the gauge of the wires from ESC to battery on the Jive 100lv? I need to figure out my connectors.

It is 10 gauge. I standardized on PRC6 on all my helis. Charging is easier now.

[hemp]

Originally Posted by mkovalcson

FYI, The Jive 100LV is actually rated for up to 200A with the heatsink installed. ... To get logging from the Jive you can get a JLog 2.6

Jive with JLog is definitely the cream of the crop as far as ESC + telemetry goes on this setup (assuming no VBar Control.) However, the price is considerably different, which is the only reason I didn't suggest it. Also the Jive 100 LV can't do external governor so no VBar gov, which is a bummer. HeliJive 120 will do it, but also bumps the cost further.