..Tail kickout after modding....So annoying.

[sunsetmaro]

Ladies and Gents. I have posted about my tail kicking out on my 500L before. I upgraded to a 13t pinion. I am now GOV at 3050rpm. I upgraded the tail servo to a BK-7005, Installed zeal 72mm tail blades, made sure the ball is on the 2nd hole down on the servo horn. I made sure the tail movement is butter smooth. I've played around with the gyro gain, tail precomp, etc till the fat lady sings. During hard pitch pumps up, the tail will kick around 30 degrees or so to the right, nose left. Its not freaking out like it did during my hard flips before, but still its so annoying. I can not figure it out. Im to the point where I return the ar7200bx back to factory settings or take my ar7200bx off my 450x or start a new profile in my radio. Maybe all those things. I purchased the AR7200BX used and put it on my 500L. The one on the 450x is brand new and I know it flies great...Please any inputs would help.

[Mateyhv]

The BK-7005 is pretty fast and strong, it should not have problems maintaint the tail still. That leads me to think the problems is setup related.
- check the gyro is not moving sideways on the tape.
- check tail slider travel side to side till it almost touches the end.
- check all Ar7200bx tail settings, I can't help you with that as I have never had one but I see you are experienced with Bx gyros.
- check for mechanical binding but not simply pushing and pulling the rod, quit the main rotor + tail blades, desengage the tail rod from the servo. Check there is no binding at full speed.
- Last thing I would do is getting a little keyholder cam, stick it to the frame or the tail bool and record the tail slider movement so you have a real idea whats going on.

[Gladius]

Are you using the Align ESC? I've heard that the governors on those are not very good. If the motor is bogging in pitch pumps (which is what you would expect from a poor governor, then you'll get the behavior you describe.) Try turning the governor off, and using V-curves.

[sunsetmaro]

Nopers. I upgraded the the Talon 90. All servos @ 6v

[Gladius]

Does the Talon do data logging? Does it track rpm?

[sunsetmaro]

I believe it does not. I'm not going above 12 deg negative or positive pitch. I can see what the % of power use for 3050rpm on the castle gov but that's a shot in the dark for accuracy..

[Kap'n Krunch]

uhhmm lets go ahead and read that worlds best tail servo thread

with that being said try disabling the governor and report back

[Mateyhv]

Yes, a governor with the gain too high may also tanslate in unstable tail.

[sunsetmaro]

I was on duty last nice and came across that on another thread while surfing the web! I will check my gain when I get home. I might of set it to high. I might set to 10. I think I am at 15

[sunsetmaro]

Gov Gain was set to 25 . I lowered to like 12. Ill let you guys know if that fixes it.

[jmtyndall]

Wow! 25 is WAYY too high

By "hard pitch pumps" do you mean slamming the collective up and down wildly? Most motors can easily overcome the tail if you do that to it.

If the headspeed drops during these "pitch pumps" then the tail will start to let go. Down at 2800 I can start to see the tail getting loose compared to how it acts at 3000

[Mateyhv]

Originally Posted by sunsetmaro

Gov Gain was set to 25 . I lowered to like 12. Ill let you guys know if that fixes it.

Well I am running the ESP with ICE100, gain 22, 2600 rpm and the tail moves no more than 5-10º during hard pitch pumps, its true that tail ratio is higher on the ESP than the L but the ultimate speed and forces are about the same. That being said at gain 23 I managed to strip the main gear and pinion in flight with the ESP!

[sunsetmaro]

Set the CC talon 90 gov gain to 12. Made no difference, still kicks out on hard collective up. For shits and gigs i flew my 450x with the eflight 450 motor, CC Lite 50, almost fully modded but the tail. Hard collective up and the tail is pretty rock solid. I don't however run a gov on that. Maybe I should just disable the gov and see what happens? I thought the whole purpose of the gov is so that the motor doesn't bog under heavy load......

[jmtyndall]

That's part of it. But only if it has enough head room.

My Heli is setup with a Talon 90, 13t, BK7005, Zeal tails. Governed to 3000 and the tail is solid

[sunsetmaro]

we pretty much have the same setup.whats your gov gain at?

[sunsetmaro]

OK OK So i watched a video and realized that I had GOV set but in SET RPM mode instead of GOV High... I get a different thing now when I put the Head speed that I want. It say about 68.3% throttle for 3100 rpm. Before it said flat 70 or flat 100........ May this be the cause of my issues?

[jmtyndall]

No. Use governor set mode

The throttle curves in set rpm is

Rpm 1 from 1-49%. 30% flat suggested
Rpm 2 from 50-99%. 70% flat suggested
Rpm 3 at 100%. 100% flat suggested

Remember, when using a governor, the throttle signal from the transmitter is not the same as the throttle percentage sent to the motor

Use set rpm. It's the most common. This is not your problem

[Mateyhv]

68.3% is the real ESC throttle for the desired HS.

The 30%, 70% and 100% are simply TX throttle positions that simply tells the governor which one of the HS you want to select from those you previously set into the software.

By the way with your setup for 3050 its 98.3%, not 68.3%. A bit tight for the ESC to maintain that HS for more than a minute.

[sunsetmaro]

So use SET RPM not GOV HIGH... Ill set headspeed a little lower. maybe 2950 or 2900 and see how that works. I will take my laptop out next time to set it then ill take gov off and see how it works.

[nabl74]

I have a similar setup. 30deg definitely is not right. I use the gpro and adjusted the torque precomp setting to help tweak tail holding during pitch pumps. (with tail upgrades/ gov setting goals setup correctly etc).
Check whether you have something similar on the AR.