Another Stretched 6s B400 joins the ranks.

[Luvmyhelis]

I am going to go down to the post office and go postal.

[helihaven]

*Looks for mushroom cloud on the northwestern horizon*

[Luvmyhelis]

I did finally get to talk to AP this afternoon. Then we got cutoff as he is phoning me through his internet connection. The actual tail shaft is running true but the tail rotor sounds tweaked as one of the blades is tracking roughly 1/8 off true center. Krap. And the aluminum boom is bent so badly it is creased. So, tail rotor....shot. Aluminum boom....shot. I did send spares but the tail system will have to be changed out to a two bladed system to function.

[Luvmyhelis]

Ok, here is the last update. The hits just keep on coming. AP rebuilt the tail and got everything sorted out finally this morning, which is sunday over there. Spooled up and lifted flawlessly. But had a new slight RH drift, so he compensated and it pulled right out of it. But the very second he gave it a new tail command the heli (? twitched and) quit responding! He told me on the phone that inspite of everything he could do the heli just flew off on its own in a slow perfect circle, and as it got roughly 200ft or so away he cut throttle. But was unsure if it responded to him or just finally drifted into the ground and biffed itself. The heli had a friggin brownout!



I felt like throwing up.....................................

[Luvmyhelis]

Got your heli AP! Had it torn down and inspected everything. What I found other than bent parts everywhere was a totally stripped tail servo. I am pretty sure this was the cause of the brownout drain. When I inspected the raised tail slider mechanicals it was virtually frozen up, lots of parts were out of sync or bent. It is a fairly complex system so I pulled the raised tail and installed a new blend of upgraded tail parts to replace it with. I test flew it on mine so I know it works well! Tarot one piece hub, align shaft, align upgraded slider and linkage, and a thoroughly gone through custom G5 tail grip assy with new 61mm Kbdd black blades.

Next I cut a new boom, fabbed up new skids since the old custom version was crushed, and went to work on everything else. I rebuilt the old flybarred Tarot head that I had previously spent days on and packed it away in your box with a new set of grips. Pulled off all the existing electronics we wont need. And installed your new Sk720!
Welcome to the incredible world of flybarless. So much better!

I fabbed up custom plates for the Sk720 and vibe layering and then put it underneath the new double paneled lower body plate. Lots of things going on here.
One, the double plates give a far more rigid body plate assy and double up the skid support tabs. Along with much better forward Ice50 esc support. I also carved on the esc and body panels for a more precise fit. And two, by leaving the frame stock instead of installing a floating panel system it will be far easier for you to repair and work on. Plus now the Sk720 is out in the open for easy access, but still in a somewhat safe place underneath the body.

Then I rerouted the wiring to adjust for the new fbl controller location and went to work on a new head. I actually started on a custom DFC system but quickly realized the Hs65 servos werent up to the task. So I changed plans and custom built a new much stouter fbl head. It now has a modded mikado swash lock assy, and I modded your Trueblood grips with longer fbl balls that bring the linkage out to center head. I had installed Kbdd orange damps but changed my mind and now installed K&B dreamworks damps instead. Balanced the new MsComposite 420s and put a new canopy in place. Now all I am waiting on is for the new Castle 10a bec to show up and this heli will once again take to the air. This time, with arguably one of the best Fbl controllers in the industry!

[AV8TRX]

LMHS,


This is very cool. Do the Sk units always attach to the skids? I like the plate you added to mount it. I am glad to see that My coffee table isn't the only one that looks like this. I do generally use a serving tray and magnets for my smaller parts though as I have a cat who is quiet playful to say the least and smart enough to know how to get my attention.

AP, Can't wait to hear of your maiden flight with this heli.

[kavic5150]

Are you planning to use one of the old castle phoenix HV-45 escs? I just tried mine on the protos at 6s and it cut off on me. Thankfully it didnt catch fire, but I couldnt get it to reinitialize.

I might have goofed by not updating the firmware. It was set to 13khz which was the lowest option on the very old firmware it was running. Also had the timing advance set to low which was also probably a mistake. It might have gone better on medium.

I dont think these things are very reliable.

[Luvmyhelis]

No AV8TRX, the only thing attached to the skids are his new sat. I actually pulled alot of stuff off the coffee table before the pic. I pour out the needed bolts and such into cereal bowls, the bolts laying on the open table are ones I have pulled out and haven't cleaned and sorted yet. Plus, my old fat kitty is only interested when food is involved. Lollz.

And Kavic, I have the same problem. It is the controller itself and has little to do with the firmware. The phasing ability of the HV40 sucks. I couldn't even get mine to run with a 9 pole motor so Clint at Castle asked me to send it in. Which I am actually now on my way to the post office with after posting.

Usually due to the cost of the Sk units I always inside mount them to protect the unit. But in AP's case I want and need this platform to be user friendly. Everything has to line up with a minimum of effort and ease. Where he lives it is almost impossible to get parts to him quickly, plus to work on some of my helis it almost takes an engineering degree to sort out all the support parts so the main shaft is lined up. As AP discretely pointed out to me earlier.
Not the best deal to send to a guy who just wants to fly, as I have found not everyone likes to work on or maintain these to this extent. So, I just upside down mounted the Sk720 with vibe layer reducing products on the lower body plates. And gently snugged a velcro strap to keep it in place. Notice I doubled up the lower body plates. Not only does this stiffen up the CF body but also reduces harmonic vibes. Note, harmonic vibes can be especially nasty in CF frames. As the thin single layer panels can develop them. Much the reason I double panel and reinforce my helis, other than the extra rigidity I prefer. During the last faceplant the heli suffered during the brownout the CF body emerged without a single structural problem. Whereas all the aluminum support parts and tail were ruined as was the head. Suprisingly the MH delrin main gear emerged without a single scratch. I think one thing in favor of the Castle Ice50 is that it seemingly went into safety mode (?) when it had the brownout? Not sure here as AP said the heli hit the ground looking as if it were still under power? He says the heli arc'd over to the left much like a plane banking until it hit the ground. How the gear survived is a total mystery.

One other thing to note. I see problems with longer aluminum booms. Due to the fact they wag when pressure is applied during flight and also bend easily during any hard setdown. So I doubled the boom support and boxed the boom. Since the tail gear is perfectly centered on this heli AP can certainly use the preferred CF 12mm tubing from HK. Which I will tell him to stock up on as soon as we talk again. I would have used it here but am out of it due to multiple Castle product failures. Plus I wanted to be certain the belt ran freely.

Since this last post I tore down the heli almost completely and re routed the wiring plus stripped off the braided covering. This way I had room through the cavity to route the 3 cyclic wires past the tail gear and also reduce the stiff wire transmitted vibes through to the Sk720. It likes soft wiring coming into the servo connective area. So in this case wiring protection and looks has to take a back seat to function. I may still tear it all down again and install metal gears in AP's Hs65 cyclics as they are composites. The composites are smoother and tighter, but in a crash they will most certainly strip while running an fbl head such as this one. If nothing else AP I just witnessed three separate Hs65mg cyclic (all 3) servo sales here at HF for $50. One set was new still boxed.

Thanks to a generous gift from one of our own members here in the B400 section I fully rebuilt a Hyperion 1630 6s motor that he was having problems with and got it going for this build (donating it to another as promised). On my last test flight with it I had it down to only a 2.5a draw during a hover. Not too bad! But it had nagging vibe issues until I finally replaced every last stock part, down to a failed C clip. Turns out Hyperion uses soft metal on them, and on my last setup the clip failed. Good to know, and glad it did it here. Once I cleaned up the wiring, balanced it and installed new ceramics. All is well.

Also take a close look at the underneath boom shot. You will see a new custom double tube reinforced 5mm tail servo control rod that has the new delrin black Quick UK link ends, and a brand new MksDs95i. Wicked little tail servo, and the control rod is still feather light. This combo gives the most bullet proof and locked in tail system under the sun. No controller out there gives better control than the Sk720. None.

Truly the only thing this heli needs now are the awesome MksDs95's and it would be perfect. I also spent days balancing the tail and head assemblies, installing fresh ceramics where needed, fitting canopy and doing other numerous assorted little things that burn up tons of time on these. I also installed a now impossible to find raised center delrin lined swash I modded into the heli. I carved and polished the ball arms to clear the servo links and tightened up the center delrin, then lubed the swash. I am sending a spare along also just in case. CncHeli no longer lists these swashes for sale.

Notice the new Mikado swash lock system. This will allow AP to fully tune any fbl head that he may use in the future. I clearanced the swing arms so it will run with any sized uplink rod up to 2.5mm.

Then I setup the Sk720 and levelled the new swash, servo arms, and links. Once the Castle 10a bec shows up this will be ready to wire up and maiden. Then I will spend a few days working out the setup for an almost hands free hover while in SL.

I like this heli, really like this heli. Nice clean lines, and somehow the simple plain blue canopy just sets this off. Everything fits, matches, and just looks incredible. I must add here, I may not like the overall qualities of a long aluminum boom. But dang, they sure look good and the thinwall .020 wall thickness leaves plenty of room for the 500 align belt this is running. Without any wrecks, and god forbid any further postal damage. This heli should fly trouble free for hundreds of flights. Plus, flip on full SL and nothing under the sun will be as stable and well mannered. Flip it off, and it will be a full on monster able to keep up with the best of them.

[mrultralite]

That's really nice what tail is that? Love the double boom support.

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by mrultralite

That's really nice what tail is that? Love the double boom support.

Thanks, kinda likin it myself. It really tied the boom in and stopped any boom movement. Plus the angle of the top supports keeps it free from any danger of boom strike.
The tail hub is actually a Tarot 1 piece with ceramics. Which out of any align style tail hub I have tested is so far my favorite. Even over the earlier Cncheli B400 sonix system. Reason being the whole shaft support plate comes out as one complete unit, which makes servicing the tail mechanics just amazingly simple and easy. Cheap too!
http://www.ac-rc.com/product_info.php?products_id=1184&osCsid=eiag8q26m o39dm1ig250kdar54

Here is the lower bell crank and part of the linkage
http://www.ac-rc.com/product_info.php?cPath=56_27_31_36&products_id=855 &osCsid=eiag8q26mo39dm1ig250kdar54

I ended up scrapping the slider ball due to crappy bearing tolerances and installed the upgrade align version in its place.
http://helidirect.com/align-metal-bearing-mount-h45130-trex-450prosport-p-19244.hdx

And the metal linkage upgrades were older pre bearing versions. The newer ones come with large heavy hubs with bearings and basically it throws the grip balance massively off to one side. This is one case where bling and a supposedly superior bearing'd link system actually ruins the performance of the tail. So I used earlier metal links with tight brass bushings I had been saving for something along these lines. I cannot find them anywhere now. I also used bolts with shanks that hold the brass inserts tightly instead of just threaded bolts which induce linkage slop.


The tail shaft is from the Trex, this one mic'd out pretty well. Most are undersized and are sloppy.

And the tail grips and tail grip hub are G5's with ceramics. Brilliant grip assembly. They are selling out everywhere, so if you can find them they are worth their weight in gold for a non slop bulletproof grip assembly. I also installed tempered 170.000lb tensile strength grip set bolts in them as the factory versions are the one weakness in thier design. Exactly the same problem the Sonix grips had in the B400 lineup. So lots of guys were having grip bolt failures on these and a rumor spread that they were weak in higher rpm apps. Total ignorance at work since the same factory makes HDX G5 parts and Sonix. So both had grip bolt failures. I have regularly run my headspeeds up to 36 and even 3800rpm, and have a step up tail drive gear system that speeds up the tail. So just imagine the tail speeds I was running. Never had a failure in hundreds of flights.
http://helidirect.com/rg50560-ss-outrage-metal-tail-blade-grip-assembly-p-7401.hdx
They spread the dual support bearings out deeper into the grips which eliminates grip wag almost entirely. And run a larger 'fat' base support bearing. When I changed them out to more precise ceramics (abec 5) tracking is dead freaking on. I did have to mod the grip arms for this assembly by taking the arm pads down 1.5mm until they matched the grip base as the align versions do. Plus I spent hours working them over and balancing the assembly.

I can say, for a one sided control ball slider this tail is pretty tight. Which is suprising!

[mrultralite]

Smokes, I sorta knew that was going to be complicated

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by mrultralite

Smokes, I sorta knew that was going to be complicated

with these helis, it never is. But I do wish I had access to these parts back when I was fighting all the tail systems a few years ago. It most certainly would have solved some huge headaches.

[bandit.r]

Is a 14mm OD boom? I can not understand how you clamped it to the frame. It seems that you have used the original clamp with extra M2 holes to fit the cnc frame.

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by bandit.r

Is a 14mm OD boom? I can not understand how you clamped it to the frame. It seems that you have used the original clamp with extra M2 holes to fit the cnc frame.

Naw bro, still the 12mm. Until Helihaven produces the boom plates for these 12mm is all there is. On my new setup I jumped all the way up to a 16mm boom. That, has been interesting.

[Luvmyhelis]

Aaaand, here she is. The final version right after balancing the head assembly and just done with its preflight. Tomorrow, it flies! Not sure how you guys post up full pics but here is the heli. I will also put this one in the B400 pic section. As it is one of the few 6s 420mm stretched direct servo to swash helis. Fbl, and Sk720. I personally feel this is one of the more handsome helis I have turned out.

[AV8TRX]

It's looking nice. I am waiting anxiously to hear of its flight. Is there a timer for the count down? Please let us know when you return... fly safe

[kavic5150]

Excellent work. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Luvmyhelis]

Haha, looks like my post was slightly premature. I spent a full day just going over everything and addressing things I wanted to improve upon. I also pulled the esc and did some soldering work on it and the new Castle 10a bec. I then went through the Skookum setup wiz three separate times just to make sure I addressed my full paranoia. Then spun it up on my rotating lazy susan late last night pulling vibe logs to see if I missed anything. So today is the day.

My test stand is a Lazy Susan from a furniture store made out of solid 20 lbs of heavy cherrywood. And one of the best $20 I ever spent. I flip it over so the square bottom is facing up. Then adhered long velcro stips all the way across the base of it. This way I can strap the helis skids down onto the velcro with straps running over them. I can test out my helis, first bladeless, then in full measure. I place the heli on true center and spool it up to half throttle or so at first to make sure the tail is holding and nothing is vibrating. Then give it full throttle at no more than 2% pitch. For those who think this wont hold the heli down, it does. I can lift the entire assembly up with the heli.
It is awesome for testing out tail servo settings. But with the Sk720 the setup nails the tail gyro, it never misses. Plus, my favorite feature is the Sk720 vibe analysis log. I spool it up and take it through its phases and also raise the pitch range. The vibe log will tell me each and every vibe on the heli and where it is coming from. So if anything is out of order I address it before the heli ever leaves terra firma.

Well, the Sk720 didn't miss anything but I did! I put it on the LS just to discover the heli started spinning. And I stood there going 'wait a minute, I know the two blade works with this setup. I just flew one this way?"
In all my pre setup work I had not tightened the boom in place hard enough, hehe. The belt tension just pulled the boom in when I fully spooled it up. And I remembered that I didn't tighten it up purposely in case the tail got bumped as I turned it this way and that doing all the final work on it.

Good thing I did a pre test. And yeah, I have done worse.

One more blast on the stand and outside we go! And oh yeah, here are his first insanely low vibe logs.

[Luvmyhelis]

Wow! That is all I can say. I never ever have had an inaugural flight come off this smooth and well behaved. This pic of his vibe logs will set a record in the Skookum section. It is simply the lowest ever seen. This is inspite of the 15/20mph winds that actually drove the heli down onto its skids more than once. Talk about an adrenaline rush at that point.

[Luvmyhelis]

AAAAND, thanks to Castle once again, we have another Ice failure. Insane!
This makes 5 castle product failures in a row in the last two months! At least I caught this one. It happened during spool up and the motor suddenly slowed to a crawl. The Esc was pumping out close to 60 amps suddenly. Almost had a good smoke show.
The heli was only pulling 7amps max on the last log.

I pulled the lower body panel off and installed yet another brand new Ice50 I had the last one replaced with. I tore the motor down, inspecting the already new wiring and all is fine. This new Ice50 was the one Castle replaced the last one that caught on fire and totalled my last heli with. I ran it and tested the motor with it before installing it in this heli. So it still has the same settings that were working before. Good thing I have the hinged forward section. As it made wiring in the leads quite easy after the install.

I just cannot believe it...... 5 in a row.
4 Esc issues, and thier ProBec taking out another heli and all my Mks servos while it was at it. Not to mention the Sk720 that may have been damaged with the voltage spike.

Not sure what is going on but,
Thanks Castle!