Building in a Hard Deck using Telemetry. Completed!

[gunny_jeeves]

Tested out more... (Actually made a couple of changes to the radio since.)

So my Hard Deck works. At least as far as self leveling on as soon as you cross it. I want to now add the pitch setting, and I am thinking about how to go about it.

Idea - Set switch to play pitch value... Put in a mildly aggressive climb, then listen. (Set the pitch to that value and see what happens and adjust.)

So the concept is to make it do what you want it to, while using telemetry to tell you the corresponding number.... When you set this later, the number is known. Never guesswork.

The guesswork is to see if the climb is aggressive enough to arrest a fall.

Should be a hoot. I'm still really nervous trying this, but everything is working as expected. Should pull the trigger for real over Thanksgiving.

This is a SICK SICK mod.

For effect, I put music on the transmitter also. So while HD enabled, I get Thunderstruck. LOL

[MariaFan]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

This is a SICK SICK mod.

For effect, I put music on the transmitter also. So while HD enabled, I get Thunderstruck. LOL

[yakky]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

Tested out more... (Actually made a couple of changes to the radio since.)

So my Hard Deck works. At least as far as self leveling on as soon as you cross it. I want to now add the pitch setting, and I am thinking about how to go about it.

Idea - Set switch to play pitch value... Put in a mildly aggressive climb, then listen. (Set the pitch to that value and see what happens and adjust.)

So the concept is to make it do what you want it to, while using telemetry to tell you the corresponding number.... When you set this later, the number is known. Never guesswork.

The guesswork is to see if the climb is aggressive enough to arrest a fall.

Should be a hoot. I'm still really nervous trying this, but everything is working as expected. Should pull the trigger for real over Thanksgiving.

This is a SICK SICK mod.

For effect, I put music on the transmitter also. So while HD enabled, I get Thunderstruck. LOL

Awesome, good choice in songs.

[James Recard]

Forgive me if this has been covered as I've only glossed over the thread.

You can only add one pitch, neg or pos to your hard deck activation... so if you add pos while inverted, you're plowing it in....

In my opinion you need a 3sx or spirit for this to work.(I'm unfamiliar with Skookum)

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by K-rash

Forgive me if this has been covered as I've only glossed over the thread.

You can only add one pitch, neg or pos to your hard deck activation... so if you add pos while inverted, you're plowing it in....

In my opinion you need a 3sx or spirit for this to work.(I'm unfamiliar with Skookum)

When it hits the hard deck, the Skookum immediately uprights the heli depending on how high the control rates are set. So it won't tank inverted. I had the gps right after its release and played with it that first summer. It is pretty cool stuff. No other flight system out there comes remotely close.

[gunny_jeeves]

Originally Posted by K-rash

Forgive me if this has been covered as I've only glossed over the thread.

You can only add one pitch, neg or pos to your hard deck activation... so if you add pos while inverted, you're plowing it in....

In my opinion you need a 3sx or spirit for this to work.(I'm unfamiliar with Skookum)

No problem... There's two parts.

1. Self level. ( on ikon / brain this is right side up only... )
2. So then positive collective is actually positive.

For others BD3SX, Spirit, Neo, your bail out can select upside down or right side up, but it handles putting the collective in there. Not controllable by you at least on the radio directly.

With self level systems, your leveling is separate from collective.

Hope that helps.

[gunny_jeeves]

So guys, I got about one flight left and this will be dialed in and working as I envisioned / intended it to.

I'm thinking about editing the first post to contain the "end game" settings and process. Should I do that or just post it here normally?

[yakky]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

So guys, I got about one flight left and this will be dialed in and working as I envisioned / intended it to.

I'm thinking about editing the first post to contain the "end game" settings and process. Should I do that or just post it here normally?

YouTube or it doesn't exist. :p

[Vertflyer]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

So guys, I got about one flight left and this will be dialed in and working as I envisioned / intended it to.

I'm thinking about editing the first post to contain the "end game" settings and process. Should I do that or just post it here normally?

Post here and add it to the first post.

[MariaFan]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

So guys, I got about one flight left and this will be dialed in and working as I envisioned / intended it to.

I'm thinking about editing the first post to contain the "end game" settings and process. Should I do that or just post it here normally?

Originally Posted by Vertflyer

Post here and add it to the first post.

What Vertflyer said.

[James Recard]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

No problem... There's two parts.

1. Self level. ( on ikon / brain this is right side up only... )
2. So then positive collective is actually positive.

For others BD3SX, Spirit, Neo, your bail out can select upside down or right side up, but it handles putting the collective in there. Not controllable by you at least on the radio directly.

With self level systems, your leveling is separate from collective.

Hope that helps.

I think you might have missed my point.....

I wasn't asking for advice or help.....

I was merely stating that this can't work as well on Ikon as well as it works on other FC's due to lack of added pitch in SL....

Sure you can ad it in the radio, but your not going to have it timed just right in every situation.... and if your inverted and your pitch mix kicks in, you are in fact heading for terra firma.

[gunny_jeeves]

Originally Posted by K-rash

I think you might have missed my point.....

I wasn't asking for advice or help.....

I was merely stating that this can't work as well on Ikon as well as it works on other FC's due to lack of added pitch in SL....

Sure you can ad it in the radio, but your not going to have it timed just right in every situation.... and if your inverted and your pitch mix kicks in, you are in fact heading for terra firma.

Yep. Valid concern, but it's fixable. I will know for sure how well it works soon. Inverted is worst case, but even with aggressive pitch, you won't be going straight down. Self level is also on. So actual worst case is you jump sideways forward or back as you flip to upright... Or worst case, you put a 1/2 sec delay on the pitch application. (So you flip first.) 1/2 sec should recover a tic tooooooooc that went in upside down at the 39 foot setting.

I know what to expect, and will be trying it soon. Absolute worst case is figuring out the delay needed, and if there is a need for one at all.

Think about it. Yes you're perfectly inverted when the hard deck triggers. Yes, at the same exact time, pitch and cyclic flip BOTH happen, and servos move to their desired positions. The key is that that position will be a flip with collective, not just collective.

[peteski]

Originally Posted by K-rash

I was merely stating that this can't work as well on Ikon as well as it works on other FC's due to lack of added pitch in SL....

Sure you can ad it in the radio, but your not going to have it timed just right in every situation.... and if your inverted and your pitch mix kicks in, you are in fact heading for terra firma.

+1. I think you will need a delay before adding positive pitch to ensure it is close to upright before it kicks in, especially as it's going to be an aggressive pitch input.

You might be better going for an instant zero pitch as it hits the hard deck and then positive pitch ramped in after an appropriate delay.

The likes of Spirit, BeastX, BD3SX with auto pitch control are more capable as they know what attitude the heli is in whenever rescue is triggered. For example Spirit can level inverted, auto climb out inverted and then flip to upright at the end. Very efficient and no delay. Just needs an altitude trigger to rescue automatically from a hard deck and I reckon that could be set fairly low.

[gunny_jeeves]

Whew! It's done! And it works well! It scared the hell outa me twice, and my blood pressure is highly elevated at the moment... HIGHLY! (Details after settings...)


So here's the full final rundown:
1. Chase 360 6s - Ikon - self level on bank 3, ch7 100%
2. Mixed in pitch (I thought) not too aggressive, 60% yeah right.. That's ballistic. Us and our OP helis.
3. Logical switch with under 39 foot trigger lockout of my SE switch. (Which was a mistake..) pick something NOT near your throttle hold!
4. Mine has a 0.5 sec duration, so back up to hard deck, then up for 0.5 sec or about 35-40 feet above it.
5. Ikon self level gain at about 45 and bank 3 is set to hard 3d. (Levels heli in under 0.5 sec easily) self level tuned to 10.5 degree bank angle so it holds nearly perfect still.
6. Mixes set replace ch7 100, and ch6 60 if cs1 is active.
OPTIONAL - add cs2 to play value of altitude when a different switch is pulled. (Ideal to know your altitude is zero on the ground before you try.)
Done! Just try to relax...

Operation:
1. Turn on then hold page, then enter to reset telemetry. (Zeros the altitude)
2. Fly up above hard deck and flip hard deck switch.
3. That's it! Come down into hard deck, it will shoot up.
4. The 0.5 sec duration can be zero. If zero, it will release right at the hard deck mark. The 0.5 climbs for 1/2 second past it.

Now for the story... Obviously this was weird. Heli becomes possessed and shoots up like a rocket, and you designed it to do this... Don't give a crap. Still scared the hell out of me.... First three times my hands were shaking.

Now this is the "12 change of underwear" portion of the story... My one real mistake... I picked a switch next to my throttle hold.

Very happy, adrenaline pumping, I flipped off the hard deck, landed gently, and flipped off the
Throttle Hold only it wasn't. 1 sec later she was about 90 feet up when my brain was expecting it to stop... and consequently did a combination of explode and drip out of my ears kind of at the same time... Not taking my blood pressure, just saying I can feel heartbeat in eyeballs....

All is well, I recovered most of my sanity and at least enough of my composure to get her down safe.

Concerns and parting thoughts:
1. An actual true bail out would be easier to set up, but less tunable. (This is no problem if it works anyway though)
2. There is a concern about delaying applying the pitch until upright. That concern is actually unfounded in an aggressive 3d heli. (Try it on your sim... Go way up, inverted, then full pitch up screaming down... Keep pitch at full and yank elev or aileron at about 50 feet. It won't even go 10 feet down and recovers just like that.)
3. That is a very REAL concern if your heli is not set up for aggressive 3d. You will need to make sure your bank 3 rescue is, and that it will aggressively self level even if you fly in beginner mode, and mostly do loops with a little hang time. You can add a delay for pitch also, but make sure it is only 0.5 sec and the leveling is fast enough to right the heli in that timeframe. Less aggressive is likely to be going slower hitting the hard deck too. So more time to react.

I wouldn't have been able to post that video. Would have been all bleeps.

Enjoy!!!

[MX48]

Would it be possible to do this with a Brain, DX8 and telemetry module with altimeter?

[Bostonewbie]

Very interesting

[simplechamp]

Originally Posted by MX48

Would it be possible to do this with a Brain, DX8 and telemetry module with altimeter?

The DX8 does not have the telemetry mixing and virtual switch abilities like the Taranis and Jeti radios do. You can monitor the altitude on the telemetry, but you can't program it to trigger the self-level/bailout.

[gunny_jeeves]

Originally Posted by MX48

Would it be possible to do this with a Brain, DX8 and telemetry module with altimeter?

You can do this on Spektrum receivers and telemetry with a Turnigy9XR Pro (the Pro version only. Regular one needs mods listed earlier) using the OrangeRX module with DSMX telemetry support. (Basically a $50 radio and $30 module, but sadly not on the DX8.)

Anyone know if it's possible on the:
DX9, New DX7, DX18? - I'm thinking not... So hopefully someone will prove me wrong.

Oh yeah what about JR or Futaba? Any ideas?

Consensus at this point is:
Jeti / Taranis / Turnigy 9XR Pro - possible, easy, and virtually same steps.

TH9X, 9XR (reg) - possible with mods listed in this thread using the Taranis JRModule.

The Turnigy 9XR Pro is the only radio capable of doing this with Spektrum receivers.

It is not possible to do at all on Spektrum, JR, or Futaba. (Also Graupner, Tactic, Etc)

Feature needed (vendors please hop to it and change this...) the logical switch capability to consider a telemetry reading as a switch...

(IE: if airspeed > 50 mph, disable or raise landing gear...) in our case, if altitude < 50 feet, bailout.

[MariaFan]

Excellent work, gunny.

[danfornow1]

Originally Posted by gunny_jeeves

2. There is a concern about delaying applying the pitch until upright. That concern is actually unfounded in an aggressive 3d heli. (Try it on your sim... Go way up, inverted, then full pitch up screaming down... Keep pitch at full and yank elev or aileron at about 50 feet. It won't even go 10 feet down and recovers just like that.)

With that being said, are you going to experiment with lower attitude settings. This is sounding really promising.
I'm using a DX9 with a BD3SX. I have four of the BD3SX's so grabbing a $50 Turnigy to try this with is sounding very tempting.