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Main Forum - Helicopter Talk R/C Helicopters and the people who fly them. VENDOR TOPICS DO NOT GO HERE. Full Scale Heli threads go in OT please |
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02-01-2016, 11:01 PM | #41 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
Totally agree on 55. The 50 just wont cut it by comparison.
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Marc Norman, OK - Synergy N7, TREX 700N DFC, TSA 700N, TSA 600N, Trex 550, Trex 500 ESP (FBL), 450L, RCHN - 700 |
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02-01-2016, 11:36 PM | #42 (permalink) |
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If you're still learning- you won't get anything extra from the 55. The 50 will do everything needed for most pilots...just need to be better at collective management.
I will say that if you're already competing, doing deck level smackdown 3D, go for the 55.... Regardless of what engine you get...buy an IR thermometer. You'll want one to get head temperature readings.
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X-cell Fury 90: 601/9251, 8231's Cyc; DS650; OS 91MP-6; Jr Vibe 90; OS 91RJX Pipe; Jr 8231 cyclic, 770 3D/G8900, Prfct Reg. CCPM; T-Rex 600 NP: 6965HB, 425MG Throttle GY 520/9254; OS50 Hyper,MP-5, Prfct Reg; 600E Bstx, nue1910 |
02-02-2016, 10:03 PM | #43 (permalink) | |
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I wouldn't trust the IR guns as far as I can throw them, for the most part. But I guess initially they're not bad at making sure you're not above 190°. Your ears are the best tuning tool you've got followed by a quick finger test on the backplate. If you can touch it for less than two full seconds ("one-one thousand, two-one thousand") without yanking your finger off of it, you're burning it up. Smoke can be deceiving too, depending on the fuel and speed, but as long as you've got at least a decent trail then you'll probably be ok.
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Tim KBDD TEAM PILOT --Si vis pacem, para bellum-- |
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02-04-2016, 05:04 PM | #44 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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+1
There is no need for an IR termometer when tuning a glow engine. |
02-04-2016, 11:18 PM | #45 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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For someone that isn't well accustomed to what the temps feel like an IR thermometer is cheap insurance for keeping the engine within range. Besides, If you have a higher tolerance for pain then you'll end up with an engine that runs too hot. And for a tool that is under 20 bucks, there isn't much reason not to.
I will agree that once you know the right temp range feeling the BP works well. As Skunk says, can't beat the ears...very true. But in order to get there you have to have some reference. It's not magic, there needs to be some baseline and a thermometer will get there.
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X-cell Fury 90: 601/9251, 8231's Cyc; DS650; OS 91MP-6; Jr Vibe 90; OS 91RJX Pipe; Jr 8231 cyclic, 770 3D/G8900, Prfct Reg. CCPM; T-Rex 600 NP: 6965HB, 425MG Throttle GY 520/9254; OS50 Hyper,MP-5, Prfct Reg; 600E Bstx, nue1910 |
02-05-2016, 01:27 AM | #46 (permalink) |
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Thanks again for many replies! You guys are awesome. Every option mentioned sounds tempting. If im gonna pull the trigger on a nitro, my first choice right now is the N5c and the OS 55Hz-r engine. Align 600n and gaui nx4 are a close second. If i ever pick up a second fueled heli,, i will look into a 700 size gasser.
So for n5c.. what electronics do you all recommend? Mainly servos and fbl? Esc? Do they even have esc's of any sort? I got a lot to learn about electronics on a nitro. No rush tho. This will be a year long project most likely. Unless i start working longer hours lol.
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02-05-2016, 01:29 AM | #47 (permalink) |
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Oh and i got an IR temp guage from my 4x4 rc days. So im good there.
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02-05-2016, 02:59 AM | #48 (permalink) |
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Electronics are going to be similar to an electric: 3X cyclic servos, 1 tail servo, FBL unit, satellites or full-size receiver, receiver pack 2200mA (Lipo or LiFe), plus any step-downs (voltage regulators) as needed (only required for non-HV or 8.4V capable electronics).
What you'll need in addition: 1. 1X (full-size) throttle servo 2. External governor if you're not using the FBL governor (ie - Multi-gov Pro, AR7100R*, etc...) 3. Backplate sensor and bracket 4. On-board glow ignitor (ie - Switch-Glo Pro, Align 2-in-1, etc...) 5. A boat-load of patience
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Tim KBDD TEAM PILOT --Si vis pacem, para bellum-- |
02-05-2016, 04:28 AM | #49 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
The N5C uses a mini throttle servo everything else in your post is spot on
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SYNERGY N5C, Xpert, VBAR NEO, ROTOR RAGE 30%, O.S.55HZ-R SYNERGY E5s Rail 626/106,Scorpion 4035 560kv,Hobbywing ,Vbar NEO,Xpert Vcontrol N556 Xpert R2's OS Powered Nitro Beast TEAM SYNERGY FIELD REP XPERT TEAM PILOT |
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02-05-2016, 06:18 AM | #50 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Thats great info guys thank you.
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02-05-2016, 06:23 AM | #51 (permalink) |
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Ah, ok. I'm surprised they haven't started using micro servos to save just a little more weight. I've never found speed to be an issue on throttle, but the newest micros are much faster and stronger than previous minis. I have a micro on my 3D+ and it works perfect with the adapter mount.
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Tim KBDD TEAM PILOT --Si vis pacem, para bellum-- |
02-05-2016, 06:55 AM | #52 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Definitely go with an onboard glow igniter. Personally I don't care for the align version given the number of problems they've had...burnout, switch goes bad. For a backup they're fine but I wouldn't have it as my only ignition source. I always kept a backup stick igniter just in case something happens to the on board unit.
I would suggest that you go with a HV setup if you can afford it. Removing a voltage regulator just limits a point of failure. Mini servo on throttle? Go for it...you'll save a few bucks on that upgrade. I 600 size tail servo but that's because I have them on hand. If I was building a new bird, mini is what I'd go with. For your starter... Modify it so you can use jumper cables if necessary. I have some medium gauge wire with alligator clips attached to mine, along with a 6s battery. It sucks when your starter battery is down and you can't turn over the engine. Sure is nice to just walk over to the car. I'd definitely go with the backplate sensor (governor)...much better than a magnet on the fan. If you have telemetry on the radio, you can also add a temp sensor...good way of seeing exactly what the engine is doing during flight--that is until you get used to what the engine should sound like. Just a note on nitro heli engines... Don't be doing hard 3D until after you get the engine broken in--they can easily flame out. Not that it's a big deal- just a forced auto- but why push it.
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X-cell Fury 90: 601/9251, 8231's Cyc; DS650; OS 91MP-6; Jr Vibe 90; OS 91RJX Pipe; Jr 8231 cyclic, 770 3D/G8900, Prfct Reg. CCPM; T-Rex 600 NP: 6965HB, 425MG Throttle GY 520/9254; OS50 Hyper,MP-5, Prfct Reg; 600E Bstx, nue1910 |
02-05-2016, 09:10 AM | #53 (permalink) |
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Appreciate the info! Was wondering what a backplate sensor was too lol.
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02-05-2016, 11:59 AM | #54 (permalink) |
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The backplate sensor is basically a magnet that picks up on the rotation of the crankshaft pin inside of the engine. I prefer fbl unit governors as they tend to react a little more quickly to changes in load vs. stand alone nitro engine governors like the multi-gov which needs a separate programmer and adds additional weight and takes up more space on the heli.
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SYNERGY N5C, Xpert, VBAR NEO, ROTOR RAGE 30%, O.S.55HZ-R SYNERGY E5s Rail 626/106,Scorpion 4035 560kv,Hobbywing ,Vbar NEO,Xpert Vcontrol N556 Xpert R2's OS Powered Nitro Beast TEAM SYNERGY FIELD REP XPERT TEAM PILOT |
02-05-2016, 12:31 PM | #55 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
This source explains how they work http://www.fargocontrols.com/inductive_sensors.html
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This is your brain on helicopters! Trex 700L, Trex 700N DFC HB gasser,Trex 700N V2 HB gasser, Trex 550X. Spirit or BD3SX |
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02-05-2016, 02:33 PM | #56 (permalink) |
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what radio are you using? if you are on futaba, I would look no further than a cgy750. FBL and a governor all in 1 unit. I haven't gone FBL yet, but I have a couple of the gy701 units(basically the cgy750 for flybarred helis) and they are AWESOME. especially with a futaba radio. so easy to set up and the tail holds dead steady and I haven't even really messed with them yet.
no esc. throttle servo and gov are used for that. id probably recommend getting a pretty fast throttle servo. remember, your going to want your engine to keep up with your cyclic servos. so if you have super fast cyclics and use a slow throttle servo, the throttle will always be lagging a but behind. I don't use the backplate sensor(yet). for now, I just am using the magnet sensor. most fans will come with places to install governor magnets that the magnet sensor picks up. the backplate sensor is a slicker, neater way to accomplish the same thing, though. I use jr 8717's on 2 helis for cyclic. they are very fast and I like the a lot. they have a high voltage version available now that can run off a 2s lipo, but mine have to have a regulated output. for the tail, I use the futaba bls251. very fast and a good match with the gy or cgy. as others have mentioned, the remote glow igniter makes life WAY easier! I use the switchglow pro. you can set it up a few different ways, but I have mine set to a channel and switch on my 8fg. flick the switch, spin the starter, and away we go. I use the align super starter. it uses a standard 3s lipo that any 450 size heli would use. initially, it may seem a bit on the spendy side, but I went through 2 or 3 plug in style starters before I grabbed one of these. well worth the price and I could have saved a bunch if ida just bit the bullet in the first place! youll want a fuel pump. I use one that just hooks on to the top of my fuel jug. I use an align 3 way in line fuel filter on my nitros. its nice in that you can put a short pigtail of nitro line so you don't constantly have to disconnect the fuel line from the carb. remember to pinch off the line to the carb when you fill the tank though! don't want to flood the engine. I use little fuel line clips for that. I use a 3800mah TP receiver battery to power everything. check out www.rclipos.com. I also use a scott gray reactor, but depending on your setup, you may not need it. the reactor is the voltage regulator. it takes the 8.4v from the lipo and regulates it down to 6v for my cyclics and less for the tail/gyro. if you end up using hv servos/receiver, you wont need the regulator, though. id grab a few spare glow plugs. I use o.s. #8. a glow plug wrench with a long reach. some foam rubber to cradle your electronics. I use after run oil after each flying session. just a drop or 2 in the glow plug hole and spin over the engine for a second. some guys don't do this, though. I know it seems like a ton of 'stuff'........lol. its not really that bad though.
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i have some helicopters and a box to control them with satellites es pro tractus! keep calm and don't panic |
02-05-2016, 03:26 PM | #57 (permalink) | ||||||
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Some videos on Nitro tuning that some might appreciate ...
Or if you want to download them: https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=276520 |
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02-05-2016, 03:55 PM | #58 (permalink) |
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I would go with a Sullivan Super Starter or the like. The Align starter is geared and can be hard on OWB.
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Gabriel Sandoval "NitroGabe" soXos USA Flight Team, Team JR PROPO Team Scorpion, Team YS engines USA Bavarian Demon Flight Team #HIGHONHELIS |
02-05-2016, 04:23 PM | #59 (permalink) |
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I saw someone in the post said use a 6 cell for the starter. Check the voltage of the starter first. My Sullivan (30 years old) spins very fast and strong on 4 cell lipo. Works great on 3 in the summer, but 4 gives it added kick in the cold.
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Matt Pantera P5 50 RNFBL, Blade 130X, mcpx, Gaui X5 FES |
02-05-2016, 06:09 PM | #60 (permalink) | |
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I also had no luck with the tower hobbies starters. they worked on my raptor 30, but didn't really do the job on my fury 55 and couldn't budge my gasser. another plus for the align is that I despise cords.......lol. the less, the better! just my experience.
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i have some helicopters and a box to control them with satellites es pro tractus! keep calm and don't panic |
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