flybarless

[tecspeed]

anyone convert blade400 to barless? if so how and what was needed

[Larry227]

Do a search and you'll find several threads from people that converted the B400 to FBL.

[Luvmyhelis]

Uber simple. Just any trex or B400 fbl head. The best of those options being the cheap Rjx based version at HK that sells for under $15. I tried multiple expensive versions of the fbl heads and it won, hands down. Just use the Kbdd orange dampeners. Make sure your servos are up to the task. At least use Hs65mgs. Then pick an fbl controller. Most use the BeastX. I chose the Sk-720 for its tuning versatility.
Cake walk.

[nartac]

I'm thinking of converting my B400 to FBL as well. Read lots of good reviews on the CopterX 3x-1000 for $30 and the Tarot ZXY for $60. Just buy a head as luvmyhelis suggested or a tarot head. This can be done for cheap. Some people even have success with a cheapo HXT900 servo so you don't really have to break the bank to go FBL.

[bandit.r]

Is it possible to convert the sonix head to fbl?

[scott s]

Originally Posted by bandit.r

Is it possible to convert the sonix head to fbl?

NO it is way cheaper to get an appropriate head and grips. Get something that is proven and do not mess with "conversions" Been there did it done it and learned the hard way!!!

[butterfingers]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

Uber simple. Just any trex or B400 fbl head. The best of those options being the cheap Rjx based version at HK that sells for under $15. I tried multiple expensive versions of the fbl heads and it won, hands down. Just use the Kbdd orange dampeners. Make sure your servos are up to the task. At least use Hs65mgs. Then pick an fbl controller. Most use the BeastX. I chose the Sk-720 for its tuning versatility.
Cake walk.

Is this the head that you're talking about?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...450_heli_.html

What do I need for the feathering shaft? Should I go with the Align 450 Pro feathering shaft?

Also, same question for the main shaft.

Thanks for the tips - I've been wanting to do this for a while.

Butters.

[scott s]

Originally Posted by butterfingers

Is this the head that you're talking about?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...450_heli_.html

What do I need for the feathering shaft? Should I go with the Align 450 Pro feathering shaft?

Also, same question for the main shaft.

Thanks for the tips - I've been wanting to do this for a while.

Butters.

The align 450 pro feathering shaft is what that head is designed around. You will want to use kbdd orange pro 450 dampers. As for main shafts you will have to use the sonix for the blade 400 or stock 400 shafts and you may have to cut a bit off the top of the STOCK shaft. Decide what main shafts you are going to use and get extras as the top mounting hole varies a bit between the sonixs and stockers and if you set up with one and replace with the other your pitch at mid stick will be off. I prefer the sonix main shaft for the 400 as it is harder and always solid. They do cost more bucks however. The head you posted to does not show in the picture the little spacers that go behind the small bearing on the swash driver arms so you may have to chase down some 2m flat washers or use the step washers from your flybar cage with a 2m flat washer. That is what I used and phasing is spot on. The little spacers that come with the newer rjx version can be found at olivers hobbies. They usually have all rjx parts in stock and they are in the states.

PS forget the align main shafts as they are way to short. The align helis do not have a lower 3rd main shaft bearing block like the 400 does!

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by scott s

The align 450 pro feathering shaft is what that head is designed around. You will want to use kbdd orange pro 450 dampers. As for main shafts you will have to use the sonix for the blade 400 or stock 400 shafts and you may have to cut a bit off the top of the STOCK shaft. Decide what main shafts you are going to use and get extras as the top mounting hole varies a bit between the sonixs and stockers and if you set up with one and replace with the other your pitch at mid stick will be off. I prefer the sonix main shaft for the 400 as it is harder and always solid. They do cost more bucks however. The head you posted to does not show in the picture the little spacers that go behind the small bearing on the swash driver arms so you may have to chase down some 2m flat washers or use the step washers from your flybar cage with a 2m flat washer. That is what I used and phasing is spot on. The little spacers that come with the newer rjx version can be found at olivers hobbies. They usually have all rjx parts in stock and they are in the states.

PS forget the align main shafts as they are way to short. The align helis do not have a lower 3rd main shaft bearing block like the 400 does!

Absolutely a perfect post!
Yes Butterfingers that is the correct head at HK.

The HK head assembly is pretty much a clone knock off of the RJX head. It does come with the spacers so the phasing is spot on. The difference is that whatever metal HK uses is actually harder. Go figure, cheaper too. And like Scott says don't waste your time doing a trex. I built an identical trex in every way to my 3 bearing main CF bodied B400 build. My B400 has some of the lowest vibes in the Skookum forum. .5. My trex posted vibes 10 times that. The 3 bearing main over the 2 bearing main makes all the difference. I have posted long engineering explanations as to why and now have a huge following of trex guys that hate me. Lol.

P.S. Way back when, Scott posted a link for the proper Hdx V4/5 swash also. It used to be found at Helidirect and I highly recommend it (although I am wondering if they dropped it) Why? On the B400 and Sonix swash the center hub is lower. So the spacing around the balls is pretty tight. It can be done with stock links but the extra stress for a fbl head on the link can pop them off or distort them if they are the smaller ones. On this almost identical HDX swash the center is higher and there is more space around the balls on the swash. So the beefier supplied link ends with the HK and Rjx kit will fit them. On the HK head it even supplies the correct size balls. If you don't use this swash you will most certainly have to sand the supplied link ends to clear the swash so they don' bind and pop off. This sanding or modding the link ends weakens them. But if you are very careful, it does work.

The Sonix head will work but with using the BeastX I heard it is hard to adjust the BX to handle the 2:1 swash ratio you end up by using this head with either a factory or Sonix swash. I have a new complete Sonix head/swash sitting in a bag if anyone really wants it. Works perfect if running a Vbar, Skookum, or any other more advanced controller that you can individually program advanced parameters in.
The real reason lies in the grips. The Sonix fbl head still uses stock dimension grips! So the links lie closer to the rotating grip axis and produce 2x more grip movement per swash movement than the Rxj or HK heads.

[scott s]

Ya I don't see the hdx swash at heli direct any longer. A rave 450 swash is basicaly identical to the hdx. Also you can check out the 3dx 450 heli swashes at cnc heli. Or just get the sonix swash for the blade 400. I guess I should try to dig up my post on fileing the outer swash arms but not tonight, I am tired !!! HA


edit. CNC HELI has the hdx swash, the link below shows blue color but silver will be shipped. A great price also!

http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet...-3dx450/Detail

or the sonix blade 400 swash is pretty much the same except the antirotion pin is more true to blade 400 but size wise the swashes are identical. Black will be shipped if you get this and a buck cheaper than the above!
but the center pivot ball on the hdx version is better quality in my opinion. Pretty much depends on what color you want

http://www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet...400-CNC/Detail

[Luvmyhelis]

I agree with all you said, but the B400 Sonix version does have the lower center swash to base spacing. I have two of them and neither will work well with the Fbl setup. Nice find on the 3dx swash! But the servo arm positions look off to me.

[InFocus]

Luvmyheli's
I would assume on the 3dx swash, you'd swap the anti rotation pin with the ball opposite of it. that would make it match up.

[butterfingers]

So much great information, guys! Thank you very much!

[scott s]

Originally Posted by InFocus

Luvmyheli's
I would assume on the 3dx swash, you'd swap the anti rotation pin with the ball opposite of it. that would make it match up.

Exactly, I used the antirotation pin from my 400 stock swash I believe, but the link I posted is the hdx swash in silver. Mine is black. Maybe helidirect will get some more in but there is always the rave 450 swash to fall back on. Need black in my airwolf HA!
By the way for spare antirotation pins the only place I have found is rave 450 spare parts and even then they are hard to come by.

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by scott s

By the way for spare antirotation pins the only place I have found is rave 450 spare parts and even then they are hard to come by.

I just found this out yesterday when I was searching around for some Rave 450 grips to play with on my fbl head for a larger stretch I am working on. I have a raised tail coming in from Helihaven that will stretch mine out to a 500. It uses a stock Trex 500 belt, and I may stick some 420 blades on it. The Rave grips have a much wider grip space for the thicker root of the blades. Other than that I love my 360s, and there are actually 395s that will fit the grips as is.

[nartac]

I just purchased THIS on Ebay for $25 shipped. Seller accepted my $20 offer plus $5 shipping. I think it's the same as cnc heli. Just passing this along for fellow Freakers to save few bucks.

[scott s]

Originally Posted by nartac

I just purchased THIS on Ebay for $25 shipped. Seller accepted my $20 offer plus $5 shipping. I think it's the same as cnc heli. Just passing this along for fellow Freakers to save few bucks.

Ya it is cnc heli so good score you saved a few bucks!

[bandit.r]

It could be an idea to save my sonix head (brand new and with the grips upgraded with boca bearings). I suppose it reduces the 2:1 grips ratio too.

http://www.raptortechnique.com/mini-titan/index.html

[mrultralite]

i'm tossing around the idea of using the KDE head /align parts. i understand that the align linkage balls are a different size, are the threads different? thinking of fitting them to the B400 swash.

[InFocus]

Threads are the same. I've put align balls on a Blade head.