I think I just got the love for planks

[ian.newson]

Joe Smith Warming up the GP123 in the Pilot 330 Extra (6 min 52 sec)

This makes me feel a bit like when I first saw a 3d heli flight.

[seanh]

It can be more addicting than heli's...especially when you get into scale stuff.

When I got a bit tired of heli's several years ago I got a couple planks and ended up having quite a bit of fun. One thing I found the most fun was the foam planes...fly them indoors, some outdoors-- crash them and glue back with foam safe CA.

I ended up getting an Edge 540 (Seagull 60 V1)...crashed it. Not bad but busted the wings fairly good. Ended up with a V2...crashed it but not after several good flights. The last one started out good but a very windy day and was caught in a wind tunnel effect between two hangers....as if the hand of god smacked it down...LOL (new airframe-- well, the tail was still good). That's when I realized how much I liked helicopters...just replace the necessary parts and move on...with a plane you can fix the airframe in many cases but it requires a lot of work.

[bcflyer]

Very cool! I flew planes back in the early 80's. Lots of change since the ole Telemaster 40 and Falcon 56

[seanh]

I remember those...and yea, night and day difference between then and now- kind of like heli's

[redsox]

Im having alot of fun scratch building 46-60 size planes. If you stock up on good balsa and find deals on servos you can really stretch the hobby fund. Scratch building is certainly not for the "I want it now" crowd, but I almost enjoy the building more than flying. My helis havnt flown in awhile actually.

[AntDX316]

Originally Posted by ian.newson

Joe Smith Warming up the GP123 in the Pilot 330 Extra - YouTube

This makes me feel a bit like when I first saw a 3d heli flight.

This is far easier than a 3D heli. If you can 3D a heli you can fly like that no problem.

[bcflyer]

Yes, lots of change. The telemaster was good. Very stable but was like watching a turkey vulture cruise around. That flat bottom wing caught everything. The falcon 56 was symmetrical and quicker for sure. I pile dived it on my first flight. The guy teaching me gave me the transmitter at about 75' in the air and I proceeded to bank and drive it into the ground. He felt bad but I said hey, I took the transmitter. I rebuilt it and it went better after that. I could hardly see the bloody thing up there the next time he handed it over. He wanted it a couple mistakes high and time to snatch the tx back. It went much better.

[bcflyer]

I enjoy the building as much as the flying, helis and planes. I scratch built a Piper Cup back then and with all the time and effort I put into it was scared to fly it. Just dreaded the thought of crashing it.

[seanh]

Originally Posted by AntDX316

This is far easier than a 3D heli. If you can 3D a heli you can fly like that no problem.

Sort of, plenty of heli pilots with trashed planes that think this..Though I will say that it's not hard to learn. You just have to remember that you have to fly the wing and that it takes longer for the desired action to happen.

[ian.newson]

Originally Posted by AntDX316

This is far easier than a 3D heli. If you can 3D a heli you can fly like that no problem.

I don't really care. I'm just saying it's a skill I appreciate.

[Thestructured]

I saw this the other day and it's crazy especially because this kid is so young (16 ish).

3DHS Demonstrator Edge 540 (13 min 9 sec)

[jharkin]

Originally Posted by AntDX316

This is far easier than a 3D heli. If you can 3D a heli you can fly like that no problem.

Out of curiosity, do you fly giant scale planes?


Ive never completely agreed with that sentiment. Its a different skillset and some aspects are quite challenging in their own way. There is a common element of comfort with orientations and stick stirring for rolling figures...

...but other things are very different. A big difference you will notice right away is the huge difference in response and stability when you flip a plank to 3D throws. Its not like a heli where holding full stick gives you the same rotation rate regardless of speed or altitude. When you are doing high alpha 3D moves on a plank you in a naturally unstable condition - the wing is stalled and you are relying on massive control deflections (50degrees or so) and the prop blast to get a reaction... that's why you will see pilots blip the throttle in harriers and torque rolls, they are giving a blast of air over the tail to get some reaction.. Some designs can be very very unstable in a harrier constantly wanting to tip stall and drop a wing and you are feeding in constant small corrections to keep it level in a way that no FBL heli ever needs because of the inherent stability of the gyros.

Flying slow 3D you need those massive throws to point the airplane where you want it... But then firewall the throttle and try to fly a pattern with 50 degree 3D throws.. at high speed those 50 degree elevators are too much and the slightest touch could cause a tip stall and spin. So you flip back to pattern rates (12 degrees) for fling precision moves and landing approaches.


And we haven't even talked about learning to land in a strong crosswind, etc.


Very different skillset & quite a rush (welcome to the madness Ian ). I love both disciplines but if you watch me on the flight line I guarantee you my fingers are a lot busier when flying airplane 3D constantly correcting, switching rates, changing flight modes, etc.

[ian.newson]

Originally Posted by Thestructured

I saw this the other day and it's crazy especially because this kid is so young (16 ish).
3DHS Demonstrator Edge 540 - YouTube

Awesome

[rdlohr]

Oh yeah! Nice flying! Same hobby, different flavor!

Rick

[seanh]

Originally Posted by jharkin

Out of curiosity, do you fly giant scale planes?


Ive never completely agreed with that sentiment. Its a different skillset and some aspects are quite challenging in their own way. There is a common element of comfort with orientations and stick stirring for rolling figures...

...but other things are very different. A big difference you will notice right away is the huge difference in response and stability when you flip a plank to 3D throws. Its not like a heli where holding full stick gives you the same rotation rate regardless of speed or altitude. When you are doing high alpha 3D moves on a plank you in a naturally unstable condition - the wing is stalled and you are relying on massive control deflections (50degrees or so) and the prop blast to get a reaction... that's why you will see pilots blip the throttle in harriers and torque rolls, they are giving a blast of air over the tail to get some reaction.. Some designs can be very very unstable in a harrier constantly wanting to tip stall and drop a wing and you are feeding in constant small corrections to keep it level in a way that no FBL heli ever needs because of the inherent stability of the gyros.

Flying slow 3D you need those massive throws to point the airplane where you want it... But then firewall the throttle and try to fly a pattern with 50 degree 3D throws.. at high speed those 50 degree elevators are too much and the slightest touch could cause a tip stall and spin. So you flip back to pattern rates (12 degrees) for fling precision moves and landing approaches.


And we haven't even talked about learning to land in a strong crosswind, etc.


Very different skillset & quite a rush (welcome to the madness Ian ). I love both disciplines but if you watch me on the flight line I guarantee you my fingers are a lot busier when flying airplane 3D constantly correcting, switching rates, changing flight modes, etc.

Very well said. Flying a plane is a completely different beast all together. When I first started flying RC planes my thought was "this should be easy"...then reality set in. The biggest hurtle that was in front of me had to do with the difference in how the plane response at different speeds and attitude...basically trying to keep from tip stall/slip stall. While you can easily flip a heli around with no forward movement the plane is either hanging on the prop or needs to be flying....don't fly the wing properly and you're in the ground.

Oddly as much as I don't care for a simulator for heli training I did find it quite useful for the plane.

[learnedthehardway]

I got into foam planks for a bit and still fly my little Pitts biplane now and then. If you can keep the throttle/pitch in the same spot and do fff on your heli using elevator for altitude, then you can fly a plane but you're going to have to learn how to land.

That's the easy part and landing is a little tricky, especially to get a nice clean one. 3d is a totally different story and thinking you can 3d a plank if you can 3d a heli couldn't be further from the truth.

Certain planes will aileron roll like nothing, but my biplank for instance requires elevator input in opposite directions each time you go from upright to inverted to keep them tight and it happens fast.

So those simple barrel rolls that probably aren't even considered 3d by rc plane pilots, are extremely difficult when you're used to using collective for the same maneuver on your heli. Boned me all up I can tell you that lol.

Helis are by far my favorite but my little plank is a riot for just over $100. Bestpart is you can smash it up and glue it together and fly again. Nice to mix it up now and then, you can have a nice, floaty, stress free cruise or go nuts. Well worth the $$ just to give planes a try, you might fall in love.

Haven't flown mine in a couple months but the sun came out today and melted the snow enough to take off and land where I fly. Definitely going to take it and the Oxy out tomorrow morning.

[hANDYman]

Originally Posted by AntDX316

This is far easier than a 3D heli. If you can 3D a heli you can fly like that no problem.

Not sure I'd agree with that... I can piroflip my heli but I can't do rolling anything with my planes. Granted, I haven't spent a whole lot of time trying, but there's a huge difference between stirring the right stick, and timing the left stick (left & right) and the right stick (up & down).

Originally Posted by jharkin

Ive never completely agreed with that sentiment. Its a different skillset and some aspects are quite challenging in their own way. There is a common element of comfort with orientations and stick stirring for rolling figures...

Stick stirring for rolling figures? I guess the acro pilots are not using mode 2 then? Maybe that's my problem. I could easily reprogram the Taranis to swap rudder and ailerons, but I'd be afraid that it would mess me up with everything else to gain simplicity for 1 specific move...

Does anyone use mode 1 for planes and mode 2 for helis?

[Bluelunatic]

What gets me are turbine guys who can't find the center of the runway, let-a-lone flare to touchdown.

[Angelo A]

I've always admired plank 3D flying. there's a very skilled pilot at the local field who has won awards (forget the name of the competition). I've made comments to the guys flying planks that I have never flown a plane but I'm sure I could but feel like i would probably never get it back on the ground in one piece.

I've been told this, and I dont know if it translates to the above statement, but I was told, "man you could fly a plane if you can fly a heli the way you do". Not that i'm an awesome pilot or anything, but that's what i've been told. I have dabbed with planes on the sim but never IRL.

[jharkin]

Originally Posted by seanh

Very well said. Flying a plane is a completely different beast all together. When I first started flying RC planes my thought was "this should be easy"...then reality set in. The biggest hurtle that was in front of me had to do with the difference in how the plane response at different speeds and attitude...basically trying to keep from tip stall/slip stall. While you can easily flip a heli around with no forward movement the plane is either hanging on the prop or needs to be flying....don't fly the wing properly and you're in the ground.

Oddly as much as I don't care for a simulator for heli training I did find it quite useful for the plane.

My background is planes primarily and I only got into helis the last 3-4 years. Im the opposite when it comes to the sim, I get bored flying planes on the sim and find it waaay to easy. But invaluable for practicing heli.

The other thing I think people overestimate is flying a small foamy airplane that's indestructible and impossible to stall and assuming a 50-100-150cc giant scale flies the same way. In a lot of ways a giant is easier to fly than a small plane, they handle wind better, can be more stable and are less twitchy.... but they can also have some nasty habits that will bite you if you try to fling them around like a foamy. Take a 100cc plane and go full power straight downline for example to setup for a blender and you better have a strong airplane, as its easy to rip the wings off if you yank out hard. Another thing that get people is the snap tendency... Fly a large diameter loop at full throttle and then yank hard on the elevator with much more than 10-12 degrees of throw and you can get into a high speed stall that will "snap out" into a spin in a heartbeat. Ive seen more than one pilot unprepared for GS crash that way.

Originally Posted by learnedthehardway

So those simple barrel rolls that probably aren't even considered 3d by rc plane pilots, are extremely difficult when you're used to using collective for the same maneuver on your heli. Boned me all up I can tell you that lol.

No, barrel and axial rolls are not 3D. Rolls, loops, spins, knife edge and all the basic variations on those figures up to and including rolling circles (basically anything you can find in an Aresti catalog) are technically in the realm of pattern/precision aerobatics.

There are a lot of definitions but the most widely accepted one is that fully stalled maneuvers that rely on > 1:1 thrust are 3D. Just as Curtis seems to be regarded as the father of heli 3D, the style pioneered by QuiQue is what birthed airplane 3D. Hovers, torque rolls, harriers, rolling harriers, etc. Along with tumbles, lomcevaks, advanced spins like flat spins, KE spins, blenders and pop-tops.

Good "Freestyle" flying is almost always a mix of precision and 3D moves.

Originally Posted by hANDYman

Stick stirring for rolling figures? I guess the acro pilots are not using mode 2 then? Maybe that's my problem. I could easily reprogram the Taranis to swap rudder and ailerons, but I'd be afraid that it would mess me up with everything else to gain simplicity for 1 specific move...

Does anyone use mode 1 for planes and mode 2 for helis?

Maybe people have different definitions of stick stirring? I call stick stirring any move where I need to be coordinating more than 2 control inputs at once. To do a rolling circle you are holding aileron and all the while constantly alternating the rudder and elevator corrections. For example to do an outside left rolling circle you would feed in and hold right aileron and then alternate each 90degree of the roll:

down elevator w/left rudder to keep nose level ->
right rudder w/ down elevator to keep nose level ->
up elevator w/ left rudder to keep the nose level ->
right rudder w/up elevator to keep the nose level ->
repeat

I find it harder the slower you do it as you have to really think through the corrections to make it smooth... Its especially hard to do one with a set number of rolls per circle (usually 1 or 2) like prescribed in the advanced pattern sequences. Watch freestyle routines - they often do really fast rollings circles... that's the only kind I know how to do so far as once you figure out the timing you can kind of "cheat" and just blip the elevator on each roll section to push the plane around the circle.

Ive only ever met one 3d pilot who flies mode 1 around here (new England) ... Snap-a-saurus. I cant tell you if the above is harder on mode 2 or 1 as 2 is all Ive ever flown and that's hard enough.