600 with 3 blade head and tail question

[GrantBakerIII]

I'm thinking of getting a 600 and doing the three blade head and tail. I currently fly Goblins and I'm thinking of making a change. Has anyone on here used this set up? If so can you please tell me about your set up? I've looked on YouTube and I can't find anyone who's flying this set up...

[getsuyoubi]

There are a couple of threads on the 550 and 700 forums, for example these:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=748432
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=743217
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=750567
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=620298

You may find more in those forums.
I just got one of those heads for a scale build but haven't flown it yet.

[GrantBakerIII]

Thank you but my question isn't answered in those threads. Basically I'm wondering if the three blade head for the 550 will fit on the 600 and what other parts need to be changed to run the appropriate head speed. Also what size blades are people using? I have a three blade goblin 570 and I fly at 2150 in idle up 2 with 540 blades.

[Smoggie]

The 550 head will fit the 600, they are the same part.

As for blade size, it depends on what headspeed you wanted to run. For the stock motor and gearing i'd estimate that 570mm blades would be about right. Expect a noticable loss of flight time though.

If you used an adjustable motor mount and a Lynx pinion you could drop a tooth off the pinion and run 600mm blades as slightly lower RPM, Impact on flight time should be less that way.

[GrantBakerIII]

Currently I fly Goblins and have a three blade 700 and 570 so I know that I will have to drop the head speed. Im guessing around 2000 to 2100 with 550 blades as my 570 HPS3 runs 540s...

So from what your saying is I'll have to get the Lynx motor mount and pinion to work? Assuming 530 KV what pinion should I be looking at?

[ticedoff8]

Originally Posted by GrantBakerIII

I'm thinking of getting a 600 and doing the three blade head and tail. I currently fly Goblins and I'm thinking of making a change. Has anyone on here used this set up? If so can you please tell me about your set up? I've looked on YouTube and I can't find anyone who's flying this set up...

Its a piece of cake.

http://www.aligntrexstore.com/550E-T...ade_c_277.html

The Align 550 / 600 H55H004XXWis the kit you want.

But, the included main shaft is for the 550, not the 600.

The original 600 DFC main shaft will work, but it is about 5mm too short.
The AlignTrexStore has the the correct main shaft for the 600 3-blade kit.

I was able to get the replacement feathering shaft parts from the guy that replied to my request for parts help.
He runs the US distribution for Align (I guess) and he took the feathering shafts out of a 3-blade kit and charged me the same price as the 700 3-blade feathering shafts ($12).
Can't beat that at all.

I see that they have added the 550/600 feathering shaft kit and the 3-blade swash follower. We are now set for no hassle replacement parts.

The 3 bladed tail rotor (H55T005XXW) is a bolt on replacement - as long as you already have the multi-link "DFC" tail rotor control linkage.

There is no Align 3-blade 600mm main rotor blade package from Align. They do have it for the 690mm (700 size) and the 550.
I tried the Zeal 690 main rotor 3-pack and was not happy. They are too heavy
I ended up using SAB 570mm Thunderbolt blades (570TB). They are the standard 2-blades per pack, so I had to buy two packs. They needed some minor tweaks to get the CG / weight to match, but they were pretty close to begin with.

After everything is mounted, there are minor tweaks to the existing links. Then 0 the blades, lower the gains on the cyclic and tail, lower the headspeed to around 2200 then fly.

Make sure you have decent servos. I used the BK BL8002HV. The 3rd blade will stress the swash servos more than the 2-bladed setup.

Have fun.

[byter182]

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Its a piece of cake.

http://www.aligntrexstore.com/550E-T...ade_c_277.html

The Align 550 / 600 H55H004XXWis the kit you want.

But, the included main shaft is for the 550, not the 600.

The original 600 DFC main shaft will work, but it is about 5mm too short.
The AlignTrexStore has the the correct main shaft for the 600 3-blade kit.

I was able to get the replacement feathering shaft parts from the guy that replied to my request for parts help.
He runs the US distribution for Align (I guess) and he took the feathering shafts out of a 3-blade kit and charged me the same price as the 700 3-blade feathering shafts ($12).
Can't beat that at all.

I see that they have added the 550/600 feathering shaft kit and the 3-blade swash follower. We are now set for no hassle replacement parts.

The 3 bladed tail rotor (H55T005XXW) is a bolt on replacement - as long as you already have the multi-link "DFC" tail rotor control linkage.

There is no Align 3-blade 600mm main rotor blade package from Align. They do have it for the 690mm (700 size) and the 550.
I tried the Zeal 690 main rotor 3-pack and was not happy. They are too heavy
I ended up using SAB 570mm Thunderbolt blades (570TB). They are the standard 2-blades per pack, so I had to buy two packs. They needed some minor tweaks to get the CG / weight to match, but they were pretty close to begin with.

After everything is mounted, there are minor tweaks to the existing links. Then 0 the blades, lower the gains on the cyclic and tail, lower the headspeed to around 2200 then fly.

Make sure you have decent servos. I used the BK BL8002HV. The 3rd blade will stress the swash servos more than the 2-bladed setup.

Have fun.

Hi Ticeoff8,

Thanks for the PM and your very useful information.

Well I've done the conversion to the Align 3-bladed head & tail. Looks really cool. Have not flown yet. I'm still in the process of setting things up. I went w/the Zeal 570mm main blades and 95mm tails since the specs showed that they weighted less than the sabs. However, I wasn't as lucky as you were when buying 2 different sets. One set balanced out pretty good. The other set of blades were like 2 grams lighter. When I tried to get them to balance, I wound up w/a big wad of tape on one of the blades. Almost looks like the airfoil is deformed . Could be just me. Was never that good at getting blades to balance. I balanced the tail blades and they turned out well. I spooled the heli up w/just the tail blades and detected no vibes. However, when I tried w/the main blades, bird looked like it was about to go into a dance of death. So I hit throttle hold before there was any drama.

On the Align 3-bladed head, did you have to mess w/any phasing or is the head already mechanically phased? If you did, what FBL controller did you use? I currently have a Vbar Blue Mini w/6.1 Express firmware on my Trex 600. Will that work or do I have to upgrade the controller to the Pro firmware?

Thanks again,
Byter182

[Luvmyhelis]

No phasing needed. Look into Zeal or Sab 3 blade sets. (The Sabs flew like heavy pigs though) I have matched up a few tri sets in various brands for my own helis out of two blade sets over the years. I do have a very rare now Koll blade balancer that does a superb job matching up sets if you can find one. The Sab 570 head setup works fantastic on any 10mm based main shaft Align and also the Logo btw. We were using those before Align finally released the new 550/600 tri head. I even mounted the 550/600 Align tri tail setup on my 700 Triabolo and it is amazing for the money (under $70 w free ship).
My Zeal tri set (bought on the cheap) 690s were perfect for my Diabolo Triabolo 700 setup. Factory matched tri NHPs are far better though if you can find them!I bought a number of sets on 50% off sales from a UK vendor a while back. Factory blems, big deal they showed up perfect. Super light, rigid. Amazing performance.

[ticedoff8]

No special phasing required. It is built into the head.

And, no special FBL require either.
I use MSH Brain, but that is because I like them.
I believe the VBar should be fine - but I've never even touched a VBar, so I could be wrong. You could post that in the Mikado section for their answer.

Too bad about your Zeal blade sets.
If they are statically balanced using a good blade balancing tool, you should be able to get them with 0.1g and keep the span-wise CG pretty close.

I have also drilled holes in the blades and inserted 12-gauge shot pellets.
Just drill deep enough that the pellet is below the surface, then secure it with foam-safe CA. I seal it with thin piece of packing tape to cover the pellet

But, if you are close, there should be no "dance of death".

Originally Posted by byter182

Hi Ticeoff8,

Thanks for the PM and your very useful information.

Well I've done the conversion to the Align 3-bladed head & tail. Looks really cool. Have not flown yet. I'm still in the process of setting things up. I went w/the Zeal 570mm main blades and 95mm tails since the specs showed that they weighted less than the sabs. However, I wasn't as lucky as you were when buying 2 different sets. One set balanced out pretty good. The other set of blades were like 2 grams lighter. When I tried to get them to balance, I wound up w/a big wad of tape on one of the blades. Almost looks like the airfoil is deformed . Could be just me. Was never that good at getting blades to balance. I balanced the tail blades and they turned out well. I spooled the heli up w/just the tail blades and detected no vibes. However, when I tried w/the main blades, bird looked like it was about to go into a dance of death. So I hit throttle hold before there was any drama.

On the Align 3-bladed head, did you have to mess w/any phasing or is the head already mechanically phased? If you did, what FBL controller did you use? I currently have a Vbar Blue Mini w/6.1 Express firmware on my Trex 600. Will that work or do I have to upgrade the controller to the Pro firmware?

Thanks again,
Byter182

[byter182]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

No phasing needed. Look into Zeal or Sab 3 blade sets. (The Sabs flew like heavy pigs though) I have matched up a few tri sets in various brands for my own helis out of two blade sets over the years. I do have a very rare now Koll blade balancer that does a superb job matching up sets if you can find one. The Sab 570 head setup works fantastic on any 10mm based main shaft Align and also the Logo btw. We were using those before Align finally released the new 550/600 tri head. I even mounted the 550/600 Align tri tail setup on my 700 Triabolo and it is amazing for the money (under $70 w free ship).
My Zeal tri set (bought on the cheap) 690s were perfect for my Diabolo Triabolo 700 setup. Factory matched tri NHPs are far better though if you can find them!I bought a number of sets on 50% off sales from a UK vendor a while back. Factory blems, big deal they showed up perfect. Super light, rigid. Amazing performance.

I saw one of those Koll Blade Balancers awhile back in the For Sale Forum and thought about snatching it up but didn't at the time. But wish I had. My original thought was to get a set of 3 blades from Zeal factory balanced. Unfortunately, they did not reply to any of my emails requesting for that service. So I just decided to buy the 2 separate sets and take my chances w/balancing. The blade balancer I have is this one which is supposed to be a good one. But I'm not too confident w/it's accuracy. Using this tool in order to get 2 blades to balance, I had to apply wads of packing tape. I removed some of the tape and rebalanced the blades today so that their weights matched on a gram scale w/o using the balancer and I think I get better results.

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

No special phasing required. It is built into the head.

And, no special FBL require either.
I use MSH Brain, but that is because I like them.
I believe the VBar should be fine - but I've never even touched a VBar, so I could be wrong. You could post that in the Mikado section for their answer.

Too bad about your Zeal blade sets.
If they are statically balanced using a good blade balancing tool, you should be able to get them with 0.1g and keep the span-wise CG pretty close.

I have also drilled holes in the blades and inserted 12-gauge shot pellets.
Just drill deep enough that the pellet is below the surface, then secure it with foam-safe CA. I seal it with thin piece of packing tape to cover the pellet

But, if you are close, there should be no "dance of death".

OK... That's good to know that no phasing is required. Only reason I ask is because some of the videos I've seen regarding phasing state that when one of the blades is overlying parallel to the boom, that blade should remain stationary when inputting forward swash pitch. My blade doesn't do that. When I input forward pitch, the blade over the boom tilts a little. And do I have to worry about changing the swash orientation? I currently have it at 120 degrees? In other words, is the swashplate still supposed to move as in a 2-bladed setup? Sorry... This is all very confusing to me.

[getsuyoubi]

Yes, the swash is still 120 degrees.

[byter182]

Wattup Guys,

OK… Played around w/the blade balance some more and it’s alot better. I managed to get a hover in there. It’s amazingly stable. Think I’m gonna really like 3-bladed helis. However, I’m still getting a slight shaking or resonance during spool up or spool down which is a bit scary until it gets above or below a certain headspeed. I believe it’s related to the blades being improperly balanced. Researched some more on blade balancing and managed to get the blades all the same weight and the lengthwise CG of each blade pretty spot on. Decided not to use the blade balancer and just get the weights and CG's to match. Don't think my blade balancer is reliable. Haven’t had a chance to try them yet but have faith I’ll get better results on the next hover. Anyone else balances their blades w/o using a blade balancer?

Went ahead and upgraded my Vbar mini to Pro firmware and was able to electronically phase the swash so that the blade overlying the boom does not move during elevator inputs. I think this bird is ready to fly.

Only other concern is... I was flying this thing w/a Castle 80 ICE2 speed controller when I had the 2-Blade DFC head on there with absolutely no amperage issues. Should I worry about over amping this bird w/a 3-Bladed head?

[TR450ZS]

The shaking on spool up and down could be caused by Blades being way to tight in the grips or maybe way to loose.

[ticedoff8]

Blade balancer - this is the one I use. They are all over eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T18-Blade-Pr...item1a290820e2

[byter182]

Originally Posted by ticedoff8

Blade balancer - this is the one I use. They are all over eBay:

Ok... Pulled the trigger on this one. Thanks for the link.