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450 Class Electric Helicopters 450 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 07-28-2008, 06:28 PM   #21
hilariogonzalez
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Definately take it off. Mine was causing the belt to skip of the tail hub from the very first flight. I replaced it with a flanged pulley and a maverikk belt. A lot smoother and no more problems after about 20 flights.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:38 PM   #22
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I had lots of belt shredding problems initially a couple of years ago. I got everything to work with the pulley on by using lubrication, better pulleys, grooved idler pulley, etc.

Last year I took the idler pulley off and still no problems. Also it spins down slower (less drag).

You don't need it.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:51 PM   #23
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My personal feelings are that Align built it into the tail design for a reason so it should be there in some shape or form. I took the pulley off when my belt snapped after only ten flights but I did replace it with a guided pulley from Heli-Max and I haven't had any problems since.

I recommend the guided pulley.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:14 PM   #24
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I may catch some heat (but I really don't care).....

I run the pulley in both my helis. Well over 1000 flights between the two and no problems. And... Everyone I know (in real life) runs the pulleys.

My belts also have that silver stripe but most have lasted several hundred flights with no problems.

I do use silicone lube.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:51 PM   #25
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The list of debaters runs long and distinguished. You can run the idler pulley with the stock Align belt and make it work just fine and last a long time. Usually with Lubrication.

If you don't care, that is fine. I guess you could be saying just lube the belt. That will most likely work. For a person having problems with the belt shredding try silicone lube. That in it self should fix your problems unless you have a deformed front or back pulley (like most of the plastic ones) or some other defect.

Many have removed the idler pulley though and that fixed it too (without lubrication).

If you are not having any problems then fine.

If you are worried about it or having problems and in the spirit of modeling, try it both ways. Lube the belt, and try an auto with the pulley on and then without it. Or if you don't auto just spool it up and watch it spin down both ways. That should be an eye opener.

Shield, I think you are right. The designers did put it there for a reason. That doesn't make it a good reason. I question, and change, many things they did. Some things I think they never get right and I turn to another manufacture for results like you did with the guided pulley
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:16 AM   #26
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i had the stock belt break 4 flights in on a new heli build. not sure if it was the pulley or not. then i went without it for some time on a new gates belt. noticed i was getting some belt hair around that area. then i added the guided pulley from eflite. havent noticed anymore belt hair. did it help? dont know yet. will it hurt? dont think so. does it matter much? i think it does.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:17 AM   #27
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Yes, there is a reason the pulley is there. It is because it was there in the heli design they copied.

It is not needed in the Trex 450. But if it makes you feel better, run the Helimax flanged one.

I installed the Helimax flanged pulley when I built my 450, and haven't had the tail box apart, but when I take it apart, I will take the pulley off.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:29 AM   #28
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hi all i can,t seem to get the guided pully over here! sucks would someone send one over out of good will!?for a friend in need?pleaseeeeeeee!
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:28 AM   #29
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well just flew some! autos seem better without the guide pully! seem smoother!it does need a uide pully! but not this one!
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:55 AM   #30
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Wow...we REALLY need to have a sticky on this!

The bottom line is there is NO NEED to run any type of idler pulley! Period! This isn't debatable....it's been proven by literally thousands of flights by MANY pilots!

One guy called Align about belt problems....guess what? The Align rep told him to remove the pulley!

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Old 07-29-2008, 09:37 AM   #31
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don,t get me wrong! a pully must mean something! i had one on my harly!d,but yes sticky it must! autos are better gives me a few seconds extra! and longer spin down! ps no binding is a must!
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:23 AM   #32
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The solution to your problem is to put the beam tail case on your 350. It has better pitch range and is WAY easier to do repairs.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:20 PM   #33
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Wow, this is really interesting.

I have 3 450's a SA, SE, SE V2. One time I had the bet fray, not so good.

Then I put on a new belt and again it frayed after the first flight. Not good at all.

It was wrapped to the side of the ideler pully. Now, many would have said, yank the idler pully.

I did not! I didn't even know to.

I pulled the tail belt gear assembly completly out, pulled apart the tail assembly, looked for binding and lubed up all the moving part.

After I did this, I never had another belt stripping problem.

Do you pull it because you are having problems you can't solve, or do you solve the problem?

It might be like a gall bladder but it was put there for a reason.

Just a thought.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:53 PM   #34
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You might pull it because you don't need it and it adds drag (a noticeable amount).

If something on the rear shaft was binding like bearings I could see where that could cause belt problems. If the belt is riding up on one side of the pulley what do you think causes that? I think that is what usually causes belt shredding. Why, because when I see belt shredding many times the belt stays up on the pulley. Silicone doesn’t make the belt slip because unlike auto fan belts it has teeth in it and in the pulleys. It just makes it stop riding up on the pulley. IMO lubrication of the belt with silicone can stop the belt from riding up on the pulley and thus stop shredding. If you have malformed teeth in the pulleys or burrs on the flange then silicone alone probably won’t help. I don't think belt shredding is usually because of binding. Lubricating the belt also reduces drag noticeable. I don't recommend the following for safety reasons but if you spool up to a set power setting on the ground and spray silicone on the belt while it is running you will get a noticeable gain in RPM (head speed) and it will stay there.

Scotty, When you pulled the tail assembly did you possibly get lubrication on the belt and pulleys? That may have fixed your problem for good.

I had problems with belt shredding at first too. I first solved it by removing deformed plastic pulleys, switching to a V grooved idler pulley from the MX-400 (which I don’t think makes any difference) and lubricating the belt. Some claim to have solved the problem by removing the idler pulley alone, some with a “V” grooved idler, and some with an aftermarket belt. It also seems that if you get past the first 5 or 10 flights on a belt without lubrication you probably won’t have any trouble later so it may only just help for brake in. I never shredded a belt again but removed the idler pulley latter anyway just to try it. It has less drag, autos better, and probably is generally a little better for everything involved, i.e. is the motor, batteries, belt, flight time, etc.

This is a long thread titled Lubed Belt, can't believe the difference but in addition to lubrication it talks about, belt fraying and breaking, removing the idler pulley, aluminum booms vs. CF, tension, etc. Bob (Finless) advocates using Food Grade Silicone on post #106 (not for belt fraying but because it reduces drag).

Just a spot check of some other threads about removing the idler pulley over the years. Most also involve statements about lubrication, unbelievable. As you can see this is just a search on remove+idler. Also try belt+shredding, belt+breaking, belt+pulley, etc:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=24420&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=120825&highlight=remove+idler#pos t120825
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=167805&highlight=remove+idler#pos t167805
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=215674&highlight=remove+idler#pos t215674 Same name as this one. "Should I remove the idle pulley" 12/23/2006
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=432090&highlight=remove+idler#pos t432090
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=45792&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=320207&highlight=remove+idler#pos t320207
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=289848&highlight=remove+idler#pos t289848
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=347935&highlight=remove+idler#pos t347935
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=487037&highlight=remove+idler#pos t487037
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=60571&highlight=remove+idler&page =2
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=610927&highlight=remove+idler#pos t610927
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=552138&highlight=remove+idler#pos t552138
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=63256&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=727026&highlight=remove+idler#pos t727026
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=85726&highlight=remove+idler
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=787088&highlight=remove+idler#pos t787088
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Last edited by Gary JP4; 08-04-2008 at 08:29 PM.. Reason: Added references. Spelling since it is a sticky
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:43 PM   #35
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Glad to see this is a sticky now. I had great troubles with the belt slipping off to the left and binding the whole thing up in mid air. It took three times and a thread here to figure out what the problem was. I've taken the pulley out and never had any trouble since. It doesn't seem to matter how tight or loose the belt is now, it just won't run off the side anymore. For those that think "it was designed to be in place" best of luck, your turn is likely coming. I can't even believe the point this sticky is getting to. JMO
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:34 PM   #36
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I can't believe that there are people who are actually bothered by the fact that the pulley works for some of us and then seem pleasantly optimistic that we will pay for using it.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:19 PM   #37
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Yes, it has been a controversial issue for many years. Many have taken it off, recommended taking it off, or left it on for various reasons and there are thousands of post debating what is better on the many forums. It is interesting though, I don't think I have ever seen a post where someone took it off and then didn't like it.
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Old 08-04-2008, 08:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shield View Post
I can't believe that there are people who are actually bothered by the fact that the pulley works for some of us and then seem pleasantly optimistic that we will pay for using it.
I don't think anyone is bothered that it works for some. The point is why take the chance, but you're right it's your heli.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:23 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary JP4 View Post
I don't think I have ever seen a post where someone took it off and then didn't like it.
Bingo! This is what baffles me! Yes, maybe there are some people that it works fine for, but those same people if they took it off it would work even better!

I too have NEVER seen anyone state they had a problem because they took it off.

But now lets wait...here we go........

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Old 08-06-2008, 02:37 PM   #40
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Hi guys,

I'm just got my first 450 heli, CopterX 450 SE V2. This is supposed to be an exact TRex clone so the issue is the same.

In the process of putting together the tail, I though I might as well remove the pulley considering what I've read here and on RCGroup. However, as I was test moving the belt after removing the pulley, I noticed the upper housing screw (not tighten at this time) was moving and therefore must be touched by the belt. I do have a tiny bit of slop in the tension that I could take out and probably will have the clearance but the tolerance will be very tight...too tight for my comfort.

Anyone see this with the pulley removed?
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