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Old 06-27-2014, 04:11 PM   #1
trillian
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Default Three blade head?

Today I was going to buy a JR three blade head to try on the Beam but the only shop in the UK where I have seen one, although it's on their website it is out of stock. :-(

So I have placed an order with RC Japan but they still have to get back with me to let me know the shipping and... if it's in stock. I'm not holding my breath to be honest because I'm not sure if these JR heads are still available.

Has anyone else contemplated putting a three blade head on the Avantgarde? If so what looks like a good fit? I think the JR MB 331 will fit but it's just a guess until I actually get one to try it.
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:09 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trillian View Post
Has anyone else contemplated putting a three blade head on the Avantgarde? If so what looks like a good fit?
Hi Trillian and YES.....I have thought about the tri blade head (to put the 600 into an AS350 scale project). I haven't flown one but my investigations for a head revealed Compass and RC Aerodyne and Just Scale NZ (here in Aus) to have the better range of 600 size heads or perhaps an older Hirobo or Thunder Tiger version?.

Im also aware there is a member here who also makes "scale reproduction" heads, though im unable to recall who it was.

What about a larger shaft (if needed) and grabbing the head off of the Triabolo?

OR there is this expensive but well reported head.

Cheers

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Old 06-28-2014, 07:04 AM   #3
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Well I have now ordered the JR head from RC Japan so we'll see how it goes. I think it will fit because the Jesus bolt on the Beam is way up at the top of the shaft and it looks like the position of the bolt on the JR head is in the right place.

The JR head I'm getting also comes with a set of 550mm blades.

My motivation for this is because the Triabolo is so incredibly smooth and ultra-stable and I am curious if that effect can be simulated on a smaller helicopter.

I also started thinking recently that the Beam would be well suited for a scale fuselage because it's light and narrow, the LiPos go in easily etc. but for now mine will stay pod 'n boom. The JR head is in a black and red colour scheme so it should look right at home.

That starflex head would be great for an AS 350. I have no idea how it works, it's very strange.

For some time I have had in the back of my mind the desire to build a Redbull BO 105 and learn all the moves (which are all super easy in RC heli terms), try to do the aerobatic stuff in as scale manner as possible.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamHangar View Post
Hi Trillian and YES.....I have thought about the tri blade head (to put the 600 into an AS350 scale project). I haven't flown one but my investigations for a head revealed Compass and RC Aerodyne and Just Scale NZ (here in Aus) to have the better range of 600 size heads or perhaps an older Hirobo or Thunder Tiger version?.

Im also aware there is a member here who also makes "scale reproduction" heads, though im unable to recall who it was.

What about a larger shaft (if needed) and grabbing the head off of the Triabolo?

OR there is this expensive but well reported head.

Cheers
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Old 07-09-2014, 04:50 PM   #4
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Neat idea...looking forward to your findings.
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheKingPhisher View Post
Neat idea...looking forward to your findings.
It should finally be here tomorrow, so they say. 'Don't know what the holdup was but hey if it arrives tomorrow I'll be semi thrilled.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #6
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I received the JR head and blades today and it's very nice, very well made as you'd expect from JR. However, there are a couple snags that have to be overcome to fit this head on the Beam.

The first is pretty easy, the upper Jesus bolt hole will have to be drilled out for a standard bolt. What it has now is two holes that only accommodate small (I guess 3mm) bolts that are obviously intended to thread straight into the JR heli main shaft, kinda like the Hirobos do. I had thought from looking at pics that the bit where the swash driver attaches was a clamp but it's not. The fit is snug though and should be fine with just the one bolt and if I really want to be clever I could have the other set of holes tapped to fit small bolts that would serve as a clamp onto the shaft.

The bigger issue is the swash. The JR NEX E6 550 uses a 140 degree swash. That's OK because I can set the FBL unit accordingly. However, it kinda messes with the angle of the linkage on the Beam and also the Beam uses bigger balls so new links would need to be fitted.

So the options are to either just work with the JR swash by adding the smaller links in front and the Beam anti-rotation elevator ball extension in back. Or see about getting a Beam inner swash drilled and tapped for three blades. I think I will ask around and see about the cost of having a Beam swash modded as that would make it pretty easy and the geometry would be preserved.
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Old 07-11-2014, 10:34 PM   #7
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That's too bad it's not a bolt-on fit with regards to the swash but I'm still interested to see that triple on the Beam. Since you already ordered the head it looks like you'll have to follow through...
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Old 07-12-2014, 05:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by TheKingPhisher View Post
That's too bad it's not a bolt-on fit with regards to the swash but I'm still interested to see that triple on the Beam. Since you already ordered the head it looks like you'll have to follow through...
Yeah I have spoken to someone that can modify a Beam swash so I ordered a spare inner swash part and when I get it I'll send it to be drilled next week. That's going to be the easiest and best way to do it.

At least the fit on the Beam shaft is good as far as the placement of the bolt hole etc. and the height of the grips should be almost the same. The only other thing I'll need to do is just make up some links from the swash to the grips.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:19 AM   #9
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Here's what it looks like with the JR head and blades. I still have to get the inner swash drilled and just received a spare one so that's going off to the shop today. Then I'll have to make up three links from the swash to the grips. For these pics I just attached links to the grips and they're just resting on the swash. But you can see how it's going to look.

One thing that was slightly disappointing is that these blades are actually on 510mm, I thought they were going to be 550mm. So they're on the small side. But I can try them anyway and then I can always round up three balanced 600s later.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:52 AM   #10
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Looks good! I just had a look through my orphan blade collection, but I've only got 550s and 700s... must have done a proper job when I crashing the Beam :-)

I've got a spare Radix V1 600mm set if you've got any matching orphans?
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by wadders248 View Post
Looks good! I just had a look through my orphan blade collection, but I've only got 550s and 700s... must have done a proper job when I crashing the Beam :-)

I've got a spare Radix V1 600mm set if you've got any matching orphans?
Well my plan was to run 550s on it as that's what I thought came with the head and just see how that works. I'll still try the 510s and may be pleasantly surprised, who knows, this is uncharted territory for me. I just know that the Triabolo has a very 'big' feel with 680s.

That's very kind of you to look through your orphan blades. I get annoyed when I look at the orphans I have as I vividly remember what happened to make them that way :-(

Just as you mentioned orphans though it got me thinking I might have the perfect blades as I have an orphan MAH 603 and another complete pair but I just weighed them and the pair are 139 grams each and the orphan is only 123! 'Same model number but slightly different markings so looks like probably one is much older or something. I do have two pairs of TT carbons and just weighed a few and they're pretty close so that's a possibility. I would think the ideal blades would be on the light side, so closer to 130 grams ish.

I do have two pairs of standard Radix 600s as well.

Also, I would be willing to bet NHP could knock out a 3 blade set for me.

I guess with 600s I would try something like 1600-1700 headspeed to allow for the extra blade, trying to keep the drag more or less the same as 2 blades at 2000.
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:48 AM   #12
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Yep, each orphan blade carries a painful memory

I'm not sure why I keep them, mainly for reference really. Like you've found, the weight never seems to quite match other pairs or orphans.

I bet a three blade head would be good for low head speed flying?
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:13 AM   #13
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Hey Trillian, thats looking great. Im really digging the tri blade holder on the tail.

Where did you get that from please and at what cost?

Also, if you don't mind, can you tell me how much the tri head from JR was or provide a link?

Looking forward to hearing about your first flight impressions.

Hope you get it going before you go over the pond.

Cheers
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:01 AM   #14
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Yeah the blade holder came with the JR head. It's the MB 331 head that comes with blades and a swash.

JR also makes another three blade head for a 10mm shaft, the MB 351 but I could not tell from the photos if it would fit and it looks taller and the bolt holes are placed differently from what I can see. It's difficult trying to just guess from pics as opposed to having it in person to look at closely, measure etc.

The MB331 that I got came from RCJapan and it is priced in Yen at 27,583 with UK postage (and they charged me a 3.5% fee for using Paypal). By the time I paid VAT and the so-called 'clearance fee' charged by Parcelforce it was about 189.00 GBP which isn't too bad considering you get blades as well. I may end up not using the blades but we'll see how it goes. Any other three blade heads I looked at were nearly as much without blades. The other thing about the JR head is that it is intended for 3D use whereas a lot of multiblade heads out there are intended for scale, so they may or may not really be up to the job of aerobatic flying.

Here's the link; https://rcjapan.net/jr-heli-parts-82...rf1ameg2d9evq2

I think we will start seeing more in the near future, SAB is doing one etc.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:36 AM   #15
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Thanks for the link, and the background info, that seems like a good package for the $$$ again, based on others iv'e looked at.

I sure hope it works out well for you after all the jigging around you have to go through, if it were me i'd have to send it back and cuss and cry.

Good luck with it and i look forward to your continued reports.

Cheers
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:37 PM   #16
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I should hopefully get the drilled swash part back this week and if nothing unforseen crops up it will end up being fairly easy to get it all fitted.

Then the real question is how it flies.

At the end of the day this head is made for the JR helicopter where it's an easy bolt-on situation so it was a total shot in the dark buying it not knowing what the details of adapting it to the Beam would be. It would have been pretty easy if the swash included was 120 degree instead of 140 but until I got it here to actually see for myself I didn't realise how different the position of the aileron linkage would end up.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamHangar View Post
Thanks for the link, and the background info, that seems like a good package for the $$$ again, based on others iv'e looked at.

I sure hope it works out well for you after all the jigging around you have to go through, if it were me i'd have to send it back and cuss and cry.

Good luck with it and i look forward to your continued reports.

Cheers
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:09 AM   #17
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Just got the drilled inner swash back today. The machine shop that did the drilling and tapping suddenly got very busy so it has taken a few weeks for them to get to it but I have it back in my hands now.

So I just have to figure out how the swash comes apart and fit the new inner bit and then see if I have some suitable links or if not I'll have to order some. I have two of the stock two-piece turnbuckle links so I really only need to come up with one more and I'm in biz.

I'll update this as soon as I have it ready to fly.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:07 AM   #18
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Default Test hover completed

I have now fitted the modded inner swash and managed to get three links close enough. I will see about finding some slightly shorter links because what I didn't realise is that the grip arms on the JR head angle downward a bit, so even though it sits very close to the same height as the Beam head, the links need to be a fair bit shorter. I used two of the original turnbuckle links adjusted all the way down and then cut down a Rave ENV link rod for the third one. I have almost no adjustment room and had to fudge the collective a bit by lowering the curves at mid stick. Sooooo, it's not perfect but will do for now.

The JR link balls are smaller than the ones the Beam uses so my swash to grip links have a Beam link at the swash end and a Rave link at the top which fits the JR balls just right.

The swash driver was a slight problem as it wouldn't fit the Beam ball on the swash and I didn't have a smaller ball that would accomodate a big enough bolt. So what I did for the moment is I just found a bolt and I'm using a servo rubber grommet and brass insert and this fits the swash driver really well and actually should be just as good as a ball link and is more secure.

I just did a test hover in the garden and all is well so whenever the weather improves I'll fly it for real. I did not change anything in the FBL setup for now and didn't change any linkage below the swash. I've got +/- 11 degrees of pitch so I'll see how that works at the same headspeeds I was running before (I think about 2000 for my idle-1). I think it should fly fine with the JR 510mm blades so I'll see how it goes and maybe later I'll balance up three of something in a 600 size.

It looks great, looks like it was made for this heli with the black and red colour scheme.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:15 PM   #19
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How good does that look!! Really hope it performs as well as it looks...
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:34 PM   #20
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How good does that look!! Really hope it performs as well as it looks...
Yeah it will be interesting to see how it flies with a smaller disc area and the added control surface of the third blade. I think the Beam is light enough to do just fine on disc loading. (which reminds me I should weigh it with the three blades).

I think these blades are fairly light but I would guess the overall blade weight is bound to be a little more than two 600s.

I wonder if I'm the first person in the world to put a three blade head on a Beam? :-)
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