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Old 12-09-2016, 03:01 AM   #21
Josh Moen
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For about 2 years now I've been flying a Synergy E5 super stretched to a 700 swinging 696 mains and 106 tails. Scorpion 4035-500, CC 120hv AUW is right at 9lbs with a 12s 3300 and about 9.75 with a 12s 4400. At the altitude here in Denver (6000'asl) the lightweight disc loading makes it quick, poppy and autos forever. The heavier birds still fly well but autos are a little less forgiving. I'm at 1650, 1900 and 2050 in head speed. I've noticed that at 1650 the heli sits in a hover very well and I can practice f3c hovering maneuvers and they look decent flight time on 3300 comes in around 6.5-7 mins. At 1900 the heli responds very well to collective and cyclic inputs, depending on the flight I can get around 4-4:30 mins with the 3300s. 1900 is where I fly most of the time, it easy on my power system and gives me the performance I need. At 2050 the heli is fast, just all around fast. Collective is very quick and the cyclic is a little quicker. I usually only use 2050 in heavy winds or if I'm doing stupid shit down low just in case I dig deep for something. At 2050 my flight time on the 3300s is about 3:30-3:45. My power system comes down pretty warm and my packs are pissed at me.

Now for the other bit. I do a lot of "slow-mo" flying. I run a single 6s 4400 pack which gives me about 1000-1100rpm head speed. As you'd expect, everything is very slow and mushy. I can still do things like piro flips, hurricanes, funnels, flips and rolls but it is REAL slow and you've gotta have good collective management and plan your maneuvers or you'll be in the dirt quick. I usually get about 10-12 mins at the 1100 head speed and my whole system comes down just above ambient and the battery is about the same. Flying this way is a great way to work on things and teach you how to "fly" through then instead of powering through them.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:01 AM   #22
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It was very interesting to listen into the last podcast. The rpm and weight discussion was very cool.
Even I have some sweat spots when it comes to weight but as you right discussed - it depends a bit on the environment. Under windy conditions I like the machines heavier (not to heavy but still) on calm conditions I like to fly light. For 700 size machines I prefer about 11 - 12 lb while 800 size machines I have no issue with about 12-13lb.

Whats more interesting is the part about the head speed. Since a few years I left the trend about higher head speed = better. I did ready a few years ago a comment from Jahn Henseleit where he mentioned that over 1800 rpm on a 700+ is wasted energy. I simply agree with that. My 700+ machines I normally run around 800 rpm on the very low end - 1300 rpm for my regular flying and 1800 on the higher ends. And they do everything you wan them to do. Biggest weight saving at the time is the battery.
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:48 PM   #23
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Good topic, thanks.

I am kind of a beginner, normal 2D and starting to do 3D.
Generally spoken I think one shall be focused on the flight experience, that's why I a) don't know the weight of my helis and b) don't know the headspeed (ok, I know it becaus I use Telemetry but I don't care).

But. If you are sitting in front of a blanc white paper you have to start anywhere, right. So how to get to your goal having a heli making fun in terms of flight caracteristics?

Well, I am now exactly at this point.
I also think that it is not so much the airframe that counts (in terms of weight). Here I take into consideration other aspects light airframe design and possible weak points and after all of course looks and cost of spare parts as well (possibly).

Because it is like Jessy is saying in his ad about the Protos Max: it is reliability you look for and you want an airframe which allows you to go flying whenever you have time (unless you prefer to build and not to fly). Your research is focused on finding any weak points, isn't it?

Then, once the airframe is set, I think chosing the components is critical. Here I look what I want to achive with the model (normal to low head speads, flight time, so on). This gives me the framework for chosing the components.

I truly believe that people these days over equip their helis and therefore end up with having a heavy model.

In my current set-up I want to go in a direction which allows me to have to get better at the sticks: for this I need as much flight-stick-time as possible and a normally equiped model. If the ESC is not strong enough I must try to get better pitch management (given of course that I don't start with a 50A and a Protos Max airframe )

Cheers, B.
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:06 PM   #24
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Great episode as always!!!

I learned a lot

Bill
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:20 PM   #25
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Justin, you did not discuss how your model weight effects speed flying. I am assuming it is the same and lighter is better.
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:33 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iscripter View Post
Justin, you did not discuss how your model weight effects speed flying. I am assuming it is the same and lighter is better.
Lighter is not always better. It's about the feel but yes for speed I too would agree it is better for speed unless speed is about when you use momentum on the way down the Cuban 8 to "sling shot" you fast. Not sure tho because I'm not a speed guy but I assume it's lighter is better.
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Old 12-09-2016, 05:42 PM   #27
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Since you are not allowed to dive into the speed run weight on speed machines is counter productive. Light = acceleration is easier and actually maintain/keep the speed is definitely easier with a light weight machine.
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Old 12-09-2016, 11:16 PM   #28
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Thanks for an interesting topic about the weight. It's a number and formula that I have gone to some extremes to define for myself.

I don't fly 700's as of yet but rather have a variety of smaller helis that I setup differently. Lightweights and heavyweights as if it were. I prefer the lightweight helis but once wind is factored in you need weight to fly.

As was mentioned conditions are a huge factor, for me it's almost 7,000 ft above sea level. So I run large tail blades as fast as I can to get tail authority. It's the same story with pitch and needing a bit more headspeed.

Generally in the weight game it's all about starting out as light as I can. It really does makel a difference for crash resistance for me as well. If I do end up adding weight with battery if I feel a helicopter is too light.

The tail is another sticking point with my helis these days. I prefer to stretch right off the bat even if I decide to run some smaller blades to kill some float. I can always use the extra tail authority I can get.

Tune is huge as well I strive for an equall feel across all my helis. I can pick up any one of my helis and all of them have a very similar feel in the air. Head speed I start out and try to get a nice low speed that I can still 3d and get it tuned as good as it will get. The same goes for a higher headspeed.

My last thought is on flight time. Generally I set my timer to 4 minutes and let it rip, being I built light there is plenty of capacity from the lager battery to go farther but 4 minutes is my magic number anything less it's on to a different setup. I will be getting nitro at some point but doubt I will push more than 6 minutes and build accordingly.

Great show, good topic and it's interesting to see how it all evolves over time both for the hobby and the pilot.
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Old 12-11-2016, 05:16 PM   #29
Justin Pucci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iscripter View Post
Justin, you did not discuss how your model weight effects speed flying. I am assuming it is the same and lighter is better.


The speed answer is:

The correct weight is better than light or heavy...

It's all a function of the model aerodynamics, blades, and speed it's traveling. Generally, lighter is NOT better though because it makes it much more difficult to get the right angle of entry into the run if it's too light and proper cg is challenging to get nailed.

Simply put, the best speed weight depends heavily on model and setup.
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:27 PM   #30
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I've had a lot of helis with a lot of different setups in them, from mikado to align and everything in between.
You can be too light, and you can be too heavy.
I agree that the protos is a bit heavy on 710's.
It is however an excellent design.
If I were Justin I'd be recycling my 14 s packs through a protos 770 with 780mm blades, a 5035-380, and kosmik. Very versatile setup that can be run anywhere between 1200 and 2000 with no gearing change and still perform at all speeds.
It can be flown smooth and slow, or smacked hard, with 100% reliability.
Disk loading is just right and easy to adjust for feel.
Best heli/setup I've tried, and I've had about everything available since 700 electrics came out, and have been refining power systems for them for ten years.
It's right at that sweet spot where you have more power than even makes sense, but the nitro "ish" disk loading.
Fully slow d capable at 1400 with zero bogging, and visceral/terrifying at 2000 when box flying. Perfection.
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:10 PM   #31
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Whats this XO that is supposed to be released in December... I must of missed something.
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Old 12-13-2016, 01:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Whats this XO that is supposed to be released in December... I must of missed something.
Compass exo 500
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:24 PM   #33
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http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?...hlight=exo+500
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