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Old 01-10-2017, 02:51 PM   #21
Johnny31297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyster View Post
The ESC is going to 'know' you increased the collective first because the receivers are hooked to that.... then it sends the message on to the motor to speed up.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Slyster View Post
The ESC is going to 'know' you increased the collective first because the receivers are hooked to that.... then it sends the message on to the motor to speed up.
I'm not sure what "receivers" your talking about. Maybe it was autocorrect trying to help you. I dunno.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:00 PM   #23
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Oh yeah.. duh. Not sure what I was thinking total brain fart..
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:02 PM   #24
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I don't think I'd ever say Slyster is a troll. He's actually a pretty cool dude. Never met him, but he's been a real help on this site
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyster View Post
Oh yeah.. duh. Not sure what I was thinking total brain fart..
Take 2?
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:03 PM   #26
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I don't think I'd ever say Slyster is a troll. He's actually a pretty cool dude. Never met him, but he's been a real help on this site
You don't have to be a troll to troll
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Number View Post
You don't have to be a troll to troll
Yeah, I know. But he has never seemed like the kind of person to do that.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:08 PM   #28
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True enough.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:30 PM   #29
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I don't know about better but the castle Gov could well be "good enough". You would need the Castle USB interface and the software is free and easy to use. There is not much to using it since you don't need any RPM sensors. The castle Gov is meant to be used by inputting the actual head speeds you want and you can have 3 set. It is nice to to be able to use actual headspeeds but you will also need the gear ratio and the number of poles in your motor for the software.

The disadvantage of the Castle ESC is that you need the software if you want to change any of the three HS setpoints. I recently set up a Hobbywing Gov that came with my new 550X. Once you get past the really confusing instructions, it is easy to setup but you need the Programming box. You don't use actual headspeeds and the setpoints are just the levels you set in your TX so very easy to change. If you want to get close to a particular head speed, you need to tach it at some level (usually 50%) and then figure the gain need for the head speed you want. Although I like being able to change speeds just with the TX, overall, I think I like the Castle one better.

I can't speak to which one works better. I can't really tell yet.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:34 PM   #30
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FWIW Castle does have a gov mode where you just change endpoints. But of course then you don't know headspeed just like on HW gov.

HW gov definitely performs better in my experience but the Castle works okay.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:16 PM   #31
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Thanks for the replies everyone.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
How would it know you increase collective? It doesn't. It only increases power after the motor rpm has already drooped.
No, backup a second. The first thing to "know" that you added collective IS the FBL (at least in the case of VC/VBar/NEO). The FBL controls the collective AND the governor, so it in fact DOES know that you added collective because it did the adding for you.

Or am I thinking of this wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyster View Post
The ESC is going to 'know' you increased the collective first because the receivers are hooked to that.... then it sends the message on to the motor to speed up.
Yeah, this - but change receiver to FBL and it seems correct.


// EDIT - in re-reading, perhaps Jonas was taking about ESC gov in this instance...
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:48 PM   #33
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I think the first quote was speaking of an esc gov. And the second. Not sure what receivers he's speaking of.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:51 PM   #34
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OK. Sounds better to me. I read FBL since most of them are rxs now anyway.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:22 PM   #35
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Default ESC -v- FBL GOV analogies

I thought of this ESC Gov -vs- FBL Gov in simple terms:

FBL Gov has PreComp Tuning capabilities in the setup therefore a "Proactive" or predictive response to cyclic and pitch inputs.

ESC Gov may have some tuning option to help be more proactive but never-the-less still is a reactive system based on actual load response.

Automobile "Cruise Control" analogy
Set the Cruise to 55 and the car reacts to changes (esc gov) in terrain elevation as opposed to the driver seeing the hill coming and stomps on the accelerator ahead of the approaching hill (fbl gov).

Am I far off here?

Personally, I can not tell the difference... yet. My skill set doesn't push the limits of either system. I've used Castle Gov set RPM, ikon Gov and Kontronik Gov. All have work well for me while just learning to fly, fly circuits, loops, i.e. sport flying. Don't have the collective management skill set for 3D maneuvers.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:47 PM   #36
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From the ones I've flown:

1 any fbl gov - pretty much splitting hairs between them. It I fly vbar 99% of the time
2 kontronic jive pro
3 hobbywing newer version
4 yep - gov store - same as yge
5 castle - newer firmware

Big drop off

6 castle - old firmware

Big drop off

7 hobbywing old firmware

Pay attention to gearing- use the calculator. Gearing makes a big difference.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:06 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny31297 View Post
YGE+VGov >>> ANY ESC governor
Did they ever fix the issue with YGEs limiting the power output on 8 pole motors? I know KDE switched their whole lineup to 10 poles with the gen 3 motors for that reason.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:06 AM   #38
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I really don't think KDE switched their motors to 10 pole because YGE couldn't get their crap right they worked fine with any other ESC..
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinger View Post
Kontronik governor does not solely rely on rpm, it senses the increase amperage and timing shift that occurs naturally as motor gets loaded and then dynamically adjusts the throttle opening, it works faster and better than any other rpm based governor, even FBL governors, which must still sense a drop in rpm before reacting.

This is exactly the reason why Kontronik does not support external governors.
The Kontronik governor has to sense a change in dynamics before the change is made. The VBAR gov goes with the sticks....first step in the process and makes changes before they are needed....proactive....faster...
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:48 PM   #40
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+1
no onboard gov can read collective input immediately as you give collective it read changes or load on the motor and response but there is always a delay no matter how quick the esc process and response there is still a delay but with fbl gyros with onboard gov like the vbar it has parameters setting (collective ad ,cyclic ad and collective dynamics) that when stick input is given the fbl gyro responds with throttle inputs at the same time and when setup rite for your heli its almost impossible to bog the motor or even get a slight drop in head speed with collective or cyclic inputs.

I'm running hobby wing esc with vbar and using the vbars governor modes and using the hobby wing rpm output wire to give the vbar governor the motor rpm. So far i am happy with the performance i'm getting works great.

I have tested a lot of esc with onboard governors not going to list them all because some are horrible and some works great but i'm liking the setup im running at the moment until something new comes to my attention then i will experiment again
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