Fixed Pitch 450 VOL 2…Featuring the Flybarless FP450

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by AtTheCross

LOL, you smooth talker you

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by icecycler

Hey HH, Ya did it again. nicely done. I like the canopy the way it came out. Ok, so lets get a little technical, why did you chose the Walkera 3 axis gyro, was it cost or was it that the system based on your mod, needed it. Could you have gone with a different gyro? Whatever the case the bird flies like a bird. it's really sweet, man...
I better finish up the root cellar repairs otherwise i'm back behind the 8-ball, like the last build.

Ice

Hey ICE, Wazzup Brother

Glad you like the canopy…I really liked the way you did the lettering on the side of your canopy, so I kind of copy it a little, hope you don’t mind.

I would say the number one reason was cost. Thanks to Alex I got the RX2437S 3axis receiver for $31.00. Second reason was compatibly, the RX2437S is made for a fixed pitch two cyclic servo helicopter setup. Third is simplicity, mostly all the adjustment is done at the receiver. I honestly didn’t know much about Walkera’s 3axis receivers before this mod, but after a few minutes of reading of the CB180z manual I had a full understanding how to setup and adjust the gyros.

I think some of the aftermarket 3G systems would work on the FP450, but most are geared towards collective pitch and will take quite a bit of knowledge and programming to setup. What little research I’ve done, it does look like some of them have a 90 degree swash option and I think (not sure) you can set zero swash pitch travel while in programming mode, which is needed for a fixed pitch setup.

Now stop reading this and go finish the root cellar.

[alexaglob]

Originally Posted by HELIHANKSTER

Sharing information and ideas is the coolest part about this hobby. There very few places one can go where people are so willing to help and share their experiences.

I still can believe how well the little yellow box does. Really I had no idea if it was going to work or not, but my thinking has always been…You never know till you try it. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. This is one of the times it worked out big time and I honestly have to say I love it. The original FP450 was a nice stable flier, but I did have a little issue with light ballooning in fast forward flight do to the positive pitch auxiliary rotor. Now with the FBL setup this little issue is nonexistent, so for me I have to say the little yellow box is the bomb.

You are correct my friend…I should of listen to you then, but I had no idea how well the Walkera 3axis was going to work and I didn’t want to blow money if it didn’t. Well now of course that I know it’s going to work, I am definitely kicking myself in the butt for not getting the 2801 Pro when I could have got a deal…Especially now since I have a few different Walkera receivers and one more on the way. I do see a 2801 coming to the house in the near future.

I’m with you and I am hoping more of the 2801 series receivers start getting discounted. If I heard right the Devo 8/12 transmitter are not compatible with the older receivers.

Sweet Bro, I have a RX2612V coming and I was thinking of doing something similar to my 250 using the 4F200 three blade head. You should do a build thread here on the Freak.

2801PRO is very good computerized TX with 8 models memory, at $119 is very good price now http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/in...oducts_id=3390 others sell it above $139. There is also a 8 channels RX2801PRO receiver for $34 in MM which is an also good receiver for >=450 birds with standard 6CH setups, it dont includes a gyro though.

You are right the DEVOs are not compatible with older RXs and are very overpriced now.
They will push new birds with DEVO compatible transmitters so for a while places like miracle-mart, myrcmart, ehirobo will sell out their previous RX stocks (we hope)

RX2612V should work on 250 even with the two blades. 4F200 main shaft is 4mm but i'm sure you'll find the way.
I have one RX2612V also but for now i keep it for a 450, i have a 4blade head and a HK kit to convert a stock head to FBL, i'll see what i will do with that.

As for build thread, maybe, i'm not so good in detail writting as you but i like to try things, never say never.

[alexaglob]

Checking again at MM i saw a $99 2801PRO (new but without box, no problem mine was like that) but is out of stock. You can enable stock alert so next time you'll have a chance to get one.
http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/in...oducts_id=3954

[johnnycat500]

My luck. I think I have a defective rx2437s from Wowhobbies.I have tried 4 different servo's on the rudder channel of this rx. All of them when the rx initalizes start going back and forth real fast. I just emailed them and hoping they will do me right, or i'm out$43.85 which will end walkera for me.

[icecycler]

Thanks HH for the compliment, but I got the idea from the Green Goblin, just changed the the hyroglifics a bit. Your idea for the flybarless FP
might be the answer that JC was looking for on his FP500 with the 425 blades, it might have less drag on them without the flybar! maybe. I'm still convinced he can get that mod to work on his big bird.

Ice

[johnnycat500]

@ Ice I think you might be right that fbl might be the key to the fp 425 blades. I will be trying fbl with the co-pilot2 that I have as the yellow rx is not working for me.I hope in about a week I can start another build thread I am working on. Using a 500 trex clone parts custom cnc frame with funcopter dd motor.

[alexaglob]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

My luck. I think I have a defective rx2437s from Wowhobbies.I have tried 4 different servo's on the rudder channel of this rx. All of them when the rx initalizes start going back and forth real fast. I just emailed them and hoping they will do me right, or i'm out$43.85 which will end walkera for me.

The rudder servo must be digital, but i suppose you already know it. I dont have experience with Wowhobbies but Miracle-mart i think would have sent you another, they have excellent service.

[johnnycat500]

Hey alex I did find that out but it is still is not working.The aile and elev servo's are going the right way when you tilt the heli and the tail slider is going the right way when you swing it left and right.the tx control are all going the right way also.On spool up it just spins like the tail is not setup right. Is there anything else I should try...thanks

[alexaglob]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

Hey alex I did find that out but it is still is not working.The aile and elev servo's are going the right way when you tilt the heli and the tail slider is going the right way when you swing it left and right.the tx control are all going the right way also.On spool up it just spins like the tail is not setup right. Is there anything else I should try...thanks

If i understand ok then now is not going back and forth as you said and the servo is centering. Then you might have to put the servo at the opposite side.
You have first to find how the gyros try to move the servos according to how you want to mount the RX on the frame and place the servos according to that on the frame. Different servos behave differently and need to be mounted diferently on the frame.

Here are some photos of how i placed them on my 250.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...11&postcount=4

Also you can try
1) Disable balance and put the other switch to adj, all changes to switches and pots must be done with the RX powered off.
2) Poweron and see if you can move the rudder servo arm with the TX.
3) Then power off and put the switches to ON and WK positions.
4) After poweron and binding turn the heli left and see if the servo arm is moving forward, if is moving backwards put the servo at the opposite side.
5) After the servos are mounted on the frame as the RX wants you go to REVERSE settings of the TX and check every channel if it needs reversing, throttle is always NORMAL.
Always let the heli for 5-10 secs to balance the gyros after poweron and binding.

These assuming that your rudder servo is now centering after binding and dont behave erraticaly.

Also you can take as a start reference my settings of the pots as they are on the RX of my 250FP

[alexaglob]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

Hey alex I did find that out but it is still is not working.The aile and elev servo's are going the right way when you tilt the heli and the tail slider is going the right way when you swing it left and right.the tx control are all going the right way also.On spool up it just spins like the tail is not setup right. Is there anything else I should try...thanks

Sorry didnt payed attention to this.
Then try to start increasing the RUDDER EXTent pot. Have you any TravelADJ changes in your TX? What TX are you using BTW?

[johnnycat500]

I did adjust the rudder ext and the tail slider has full travel with no binding. I am using a wk2402 from my robocopter. I have not messed with travel adjust on the tx. Thanks for all the info.

[alexaglob]

Seems strange, can you post some pics of your setup? channels reversed, the RX with the pots also.
I had something similar with the Firefox 200 and the 250 when i used UFLY FP blades just shortened and the heli was spinning around until i've cut them as HH did at his 250 mod.

Also to the HK250GT with 6CH RX2610V, i had the rudder gyro low to keep it from wagging, it started spinning and i just increased the RUDDER Extent.

2402 TX is very simple, i think it has no TRVADJ. The only extra it has is the AUX channel that if is ON it acts as enabling D/R.

[HELIHANKSTER]

This sucks Johnny…probably a bad receiver, but I’m with Alex.
Could you show some pictures of your setup, it might help?

Which way is your tail servo mounted? I know it shouldn’t make a different as long as it’s correcting for yaw the right way and stick direction is right, but it does. I had to flip my tail servo around and put it on the opposite side of the boom to get the tail working correctly for me.

This is how I have my tail servo mounted.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by alexaglob

2801PRO is very good computerized TX with 8 models memory, at $119 is very good price now http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/in...oducts_id=3390 others sell it above $139. There is also a 8 channels RX2801PRO receiver for $34 in MM which is an also good receiver for >=450 birds with standard 6CH setups, it dont includes a gyro though.

You are right the DEVOs are not compatible with older RXs and are very overpriced now.
They will push new birds with DEVO compatible transmitters so for a while places like miracle-mart, myrcmart, ehirobo will sell out their previous RX stocks (we hope)

RX2612V should work on 250 even with the two blades. 4F200 main shaft is 4mm but i'm sure you'll find the way.
I have one RX2612V also but for now i keep it for a 450, i have a 4blade head and a HK kit to convert a stock head to FBL, i'll see what i will do with that.

As for build thread, maybe, i'm not so good in detail writting as you but i like to try things, never say never.

Pulled the trigger this morning and bought the 2801 Pro as I’m going to need the 8 model memory…sweetness. I must say Alex, you have help a brother tinker out more than you know by posting your flybarless FP250 using the Walkera 3axis receiver. Ever since I bought the WK 2603 transmitter, I have been looking around and researching Walkera receivers and just happen to come across a great deal on a RX2442 receiver made for the CB180Q. Walkera designed this receiver to be plug and play with a brushless tail motor and that’s something I have been wanting for a long time, so I had to get one and try it out…Yeah Baby. I just finish a Super Bee build using the RX2442 receiver and a brushless12mm x 30mm tail motor I had on hand and man this Bee flat out Rocks! I can finally throw the hammer down hard and not worry about wearing out the tail motor. This Super bee is also sporting a 3900kv main motor and the brushless tail motor has absolutely no problem keeping up. It’s amazing…If I showed a flight video of this thing ripping the air, I truly think nobody would believe it’s a fixed pitch helicopter…it’s that sick.

Ah 4mm…that’s good to know. I didn’t know the diameter of the 4F200 main shaft, but there’s not a lot of choices when it come to multi rotor heads for the 250 and the 4F200 head seem like a violable option. I have a 250 md500 fuselage that I’ve had for along time and really think it would look cool with a multi rotor head. Thanks for the heads up on the 4F200 shaft being 4mm, I’ll do some more thinking on this matter.

When you do the flybarless 450 build using the RX2612V I will totally be tune in Brother, as I also have a 450 Apache fuselage just waiting to be built and what I have experience so far with the RX2437S, the RX2612V should be able to handle a multi rotor head of that size…so hell yeah…I will be right behind you with my build. Just thinking about it is sweet…a cp 3axis setup with a 5 blade rotor head for under a 100 bucks…life doesn’t get any better. lol!

Brother trust me…if I can do a mod/build thread and it makes any sense at all to people, then anybody can. lol As most of my peeps know, I am really lacking in the whole proper English writing thing, so I try to make up for this downfall with pretty pictures. I know if you do a build thread it will be awesome, because you know your stuff and have already help me out a ton. If you do decide to do one, just save me a chair…cause I’ll be there.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by alexaglob

Checking again at MM i saw a $99 2801PRO (new but without box, no problem mine was like that) but is out of stock. You can enable stock alert so next time you'll have a chance to get one.
http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/in...oducts_id=3954

Thanks Bro
Well I had to go with Helidirect here in the States. They are selling the 2801 pro for $129.99 and with orders over a $100.00 you get free shipping. I was going to go with Miracle Mart, but with shipping the 2801 Pro would of ended up costing me $147.95 and it would of taking a couple of weeks to get.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by icecycler

Thanks HH for the compliment, but I got the idea from the Green Goblin, just changed the the hyroglifics a bit. Your idea for the flybarless FP
might be the answer that JC was looking for on his FP500 with the 425 blades, it might have less drag on them without the flybar! maybe. I'm still convinced he can get that mod to work on his big bird.

Ice

+1
I also am still convinced that Johnny will get the big blades working.

[HELIHANKSTER]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

@ Ice I think you might be right that fbl might be the key to the fp 425 blades. I will be trying fbl with the co-pilot2 that I have as the yellow rx is not working for me.I hope in about a week I can start another build thread I am working on. Using a 500 trex clone parts custom cnc frame with funcopter dd motor.

I would like to see how the co-pilot does with the FBL FC head, but I also want to know your opinion on how well the RX2437S does. So I hope WoW doesn’t screw you over.

Yeah baby…looking forward to the 500 build.

[AtTheCross]

Originally Posted by johnnycat500

Hey alex I did find that out but it is still is not working.The aile and elev servo's are going the right way when you tilt the heli and the tail slider is going the right way when you swing it left and right.the tx control are all going the right way also.On spool up it just spins like the tail is not setup right. Is there anything else I should try...thanks

very weird, if the blades are deflecting the correct way. there's not a nor/rev switch on these rx's. looking tail to nose is your servo horn closest to the right side or left side of the boom?

[alexaglob]

Originally Posted by HELIHANKSTER

Pulled the trigger this morning and bought the 2801 Pro as I’m going to need the 8 model memory…sweetness. I must say Alex, you have help a brother tinker out more than you know by posting your flybarless FP250 using the Walkera 3axis receiver. Ever since I bought the WK 2603 transmitter, I have been looking around and researching Walkera receivers and just happen to come across a great deal on a RX2442 receiver made for the CB180Q. Walkera designed this receiver to be plug and play with a brushless tail motor and that’s something I have been wanting for a long time, so I had to get one and try it out…Yeah Baby. I just finish a Super Bee build using the RX2442 receiver and a brushless12mm x 30mm tail motor I had on hand and man this Bee flat out Rocks! I can finally throw the hammer down hard and not worry about wearing out the tail motor. This Super bee is also sporting a 3900kv main motor and the brushless tail motor has absolutely no problem keeping up. It’s amazing…If I showed a flight video of this thing ripping the air, I truly think nobody would believe it’s a fixed pitch helicopter…it’s that sick.

Ah 4mm…that’s good to know. I didn’t know the diameter of the 4F200 main shaft, but there’s not a lot of choices when it come to multi rotor heads for the 250 and the 4F200 head seem like a violable option. I have a 250 md500 fuselage that I’ve had for along time and really think it would look cool with a multi rotor head. Thanks for the heads up on the 4F200 shaft being 4mm, I’ll do some more thinking on this matter.

When you do the flybarless 450 build using the RX2612V I will totally be tune in Brother, as I also have a 450 Apache fuselage just waiting to be built and what I have experience so far with the RX2437S, the RX2612V should be able to handle a multi rotor head of that size…so hell yeah…I will be right behind you with my build. Just thinking about it is sweet…a cp 3axis setup with a 5 blade rotor head for under a 100 bucks…life doesn’t get any better. lol!

Brother trust me…if I can do a mod/build thread and it makes any sense at all to people, then anybody can. lol As most of my peeps know, I am really lacking in the whole proper English writing thing, so I try to make up for this downfall with pretty pictures. I know if you do a build thread it will be awesome, because you know your stuff and have already help me out a ton. If you do decide to do one, just save me a chair…cause I’ll be there.

Good job with the Bee, we would like to see a vid when you can.
Having the ability to use parts from several vendors extends our capabilities to enjoy our hobby.
My main job in computing is integrating products and services to provide solutions for my customers and it is similar to what we enjoy here, at another level ofcourse, i guess its something inner. Although different from when i was a child, i was enjoying disintegtrating things

After having some Walkera micros, i decided that i enjoy more the building process and given my low level flying skills (and the low budget now) starting from these cheap clone kits and using these 3axis receivers (that i always find in bargain), getting info and experiences from people like you i can have a heli to fill my current needs in cheap.
And most of all i made it, you all know the feeling. After that is the joy to share and help.

250 in the MD500 fuselage will be cool. Check this thread,
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...killer+mod+250
It was his thread and yours that fired me up. But your solution of changing the main shaft bearings was better for me having the V370 head. There, Alwayscrash a very innovative guy in rcgroups used CB180 main shaft (is hollow 4mm as he mentions) and pressed in the 250 shaft.

The Apache fuselage will be amazing on the 450.
For the FBL 450 with 2612V, some guys say there are problems with this RX but i think for my skills will be good enough as idont have any 3D expectations.
The same for RX2610V, but i've seen some videos of 250s doing 3D with RX2610V.
I find HK250GT with RX2610V very easy, totaly different from when i first built my Aeolian 250 kit as CP with a CT6B receiver and TX. It was an angry beast, i transformed it to the FP250FBL.
The same i expect to be the 450FBL, is more matter of RX and servo orientation to fit these non programmable 3G receivers, we have to immitate the hardcoded placement on the Walkera helis, they even forgive any servo/link misalignments for hovering at least.
A decent but as i read difficult to setup 3axis receiver for 450 and bigger birds is RX2702V from V450D01 and V500 (i think). Its price is around $130 but i have seen some sales around $90 (out of stock unfortunately).