Is a bigger heli more dangerous to a noob?

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by AnTi Taco

Heres a Crazy Newbee at my field....everyone that fly there is scared of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVvGczHwNHs

I believe that is referred as " releasing the power of the dark side of the force"

[AnTi Taco]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

I believe that is referred as " releasing the power of the dark side of the force"

lol i have a whole thread about this guy at my Field lol this is what a newbee should not do lol

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=257642

[lucien]

Originally Posted by AnTi Taco

Heres a Crazy Newbee at my field....everyone that fly there is scared of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVvGczHwNHs

Hmm... all my flights are like that, looks normal to me. What's the problem?

LS

[McKrackin]

I voted "not sure".

I have been hit several times by a 450 or smaller. A few times intentionally blocking it with my leg to keep it from hitting something more valuable. Well,once with a 450 was enough.lol..And a few times with a 250 and hundreds of times with MCP X,MSR and others micros.

I have little to no fear of a 450 or smaller.

I have never been hit by a larger heli. Why? I instinctively know better.
I might try to stop a weedeater from tearing up something of mine but if it's a bush hog,it can have it

A larger heli will keep an average person of average intelligence at bay.
A smaller heli inspires no fear and is usually allowed much much closer and can be more dangerous as a result.

It comes down to severity vs numbers.
More people will be hurt by smaller helis while the larger helis will always inflict life changing injuries.Possibly even life ending results.

Which is more dangerous? I just can't say.

[McKrackin]

Remember,until very very recently,a 550/.30 size nitro was the smallest option out there and you never heard of injuries then.

The flood of small helis have brought on the rise of accidents by simply getting more guys involved.

[Cadjocky]

Originally Posted by E McD

Remember,until very very recently,a 550/.30 size nitro was the smallest option out there and you never heard of injuries then.

The flood of small helis have brought on the rise of accidents by simply getting more guys involved.

Please provide your statical analysis of this. I don't doubt you but if you make a statement like this please prove it with facts.

[SamurAchzar]

The answer is dependent on who the pilot is, exactly. Is he a hot headed 14 years old that thinks he's a great pilot without hovering for 5 seconds straight? If he is, he will crash no matter what the machine is and in such case the smaller the heli, the better (even a 450 is way too dangerous).

Now; if he's a more mature guy (by age or mentally) who spent his hard earned money and has respect to the machine and the patience to learn, starting around 550 size is ideal (in any case no smaller than 425mm blades and no larger than 600mm). Remember in the past all beginners had were .30 machines, which are essentially 550mm of today and everyone was fine. I do feel much safer with the larger helis as I always fly them much farther and higher than I do with the small ones and they don't "get away" from you as easily.

Now it's not only the heli size, but the setup as well. It has to be setup stable and low-ish headspeed, and of course perfect mechanical and electronic setup.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by Laurens

Bigger is safer imho, at least I feel safer with a noob flying a bigger heli.

- Its bigger, so you can see it at a safer distance
- Its more stable, so its less likely that the beginner loses control.
- Its easier to set up, so beginners are less likely to make mistakes
- Its more intimidating, so beginners will think twice before doing stupid stuff
- I personally think a 250 will go to the bone, so thats serious injury too.

So you're good with a noob that doesn't know how to hover and doesn't know his orientations yet flying a 700 near you? You are way braver than I am. I would be afraid that I would be hit by blade weights and other shrapnel if not the heli.
Rick

[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

So you're good with a noob that doesn't know how to hover and doesn't know his orientations yet flying a 700 near you? You are way braver than I am. I would be afraid that I would be hit by blade weights and other shrapnel if not the heli.
Rick

You twisted what he said to suit you.
His very first point was that you can keep a larger more visible heli at a safer distance.


He didn't say anything even close to feeling safe letting someone hover a 700 near him.In fact,it was the opposite.
He also never said anything about being around other people period.
I have never even seen another heli fly other than mine.Self taught 100%.
I didn't actually start learning until I finally got a 500.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by E McD

You twisted what he said to suit you.
His very first point was that you can keep a larger more visible heli at a safer distance.

he didn't say anything even close to feeling safe letting someone hover a 700 near him.In fact,it was the opposite.

Sorry, near is a relative term. I meant in the flying field that you are flying at. I'm picturing the guy getting his new 700 size heli a bit tipsy as he starts to take off and then he over corrects. 700 size blades start digging into the ground and all havoc breaks loose. Oops.

By the way, Laurens is a good friend whose opinion I very much respect. My intent was to help frame my question.

Rick

[McKrackin]

Originally Posted by rdlohr

Sorry, near is a relative term. I meant in the flying field that you are flying at. I'm picturing the guy getting his new 700 size heli a bit tipsy as he starts to take off and then he over corrects. 700 size blades start digging into the ground and all havoc breaks loose. Oops.

Rick

Don't assume he's at a flying field either.
I'd say more of us DON'T fly at a field than those of you that do.

Do you fly a 700?
Mine has tipped a couple times and the blades just go THUMP.
They're big enough to hold together and not throw stuff.

Little helis blow apart.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by E McD

Don't assume he's at a flying field either.
I'd say more of us DON'T fly at a field than those of you that do.

OK. So he is only putting himself in danger which goes to the root of my question. Is it prudent to recommend a bigger heli to a noob. I just was asked by a co-worker what heli he should get his son. I can't even imagine how I would feel if he got really injured or killed as a direct result of my recommendation.

Rick

[desertstalker]

Originally Posted by E McD

Little helis blow apart.

Really, last time i dumped my G200 (205mm align CF blades) the blades got scuffed and i bent a main + feathering shaft (stripped main gear and broke a landing strut and boom but thats not really relevant). Now granted im not running one of those insane 4800RPM setups (i run at ~4200RPM) but nothing came close to blowing apart and it came down hard (i hit TH as it hit the dirt sideways, blades first).

And even if it did blow apart, none of the components of a 200 size have enough mass to hurt you much (i have been hit by the 12k RPM tail on my 200, it drew blood but only just) especially if you are more than a meter or so away.

I have tipped it a couple of times on landing (i fly over very uneven ground) and all that ever does usually is scuff the blades (maybe bends a shaft or two).

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by E McD

I didn't actually start learning until I finally got a 500.

Really? So you didn't learn to hover, FF or any orientations on your earlier helis? I would argue that you in fact got though your most dangerous time period prior to getting your 500. That is the exact period of time when I am recommending an easy to fix, low cost to fix, less dangerous heli. After that you are at a stage when you can safely control a bigger heli and use it to continue your learning and I would fully agree that that there is an advantage moving to a bigger more stable heli to reasonably progress.

Rick

[McKrackin]

I did learn to hover and stuff with smaller helis and I was still crashing A BUNCH.lol...

The every day crashes stopped with the 500.
A bigger heli will not crash as often and its size and noise demands respect where a smaller one feels safe when in fact it really isn't.

I really can't say which is safer since neither is completely safe for completely different reasons.

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by E McD

I did learn to hover and stuff with smaller helis and I was still crashing A BUNCH.lol...

The every day crashes stopped with the 500.
A bigger heli will not crash as often and its size and noise demands respect where a smaller one feels safe when in fact it really isn't.

I really can't say which is safer since neither is completely safe for completely different reasons.

On the point that neither is completely safe I would have agreed till the MCP-X came out. It is a heli that will teach you the basics without risk. Crash costs are minimal and many crashes require no repairs, no down time. Granted, its harder to fly. That is what I recommend to noobs now. I haven't seen anything but smiling faces from them yet.

Rick

[flyinghigh450]

If a total noob has the money to keep up on crashes starting with a 50/90 size heli is they have no local help or not,go for it.

More stable = less crashing
10000X less twitchy = more control/less crashing
Way easyer to see so you can set it out 20ft
You'll progress 10000X faster
and the list go's on.

I know quite a few people that started with 50 and 90 size heli..One of my buddy's started with 3 different brand 90's about 2 year's ago.He was up to 37 90 size heli about 4-5 month's ago and is down to 15 or so..The guy is well into 3D because he progressed much faster from the big heli's..I ask tonight if he would start with a smaller 450 if he had to do it all over again and he laughed with a "hell no" ..
If someone want's to start the hobby and has the $$ to start and keep up on a 50/90 size heli,they'll be happy they did ....

[rdlohr]

Originally Posted by flyinghigh450

If a total noob has the money to keep up on crashes starting with a 50/90 size heli is they have no local help or not,go for it.

More stable = less crashing
10000X less twitchy = more control/less crashing
Way easyer to see so you can set it out 20ft
You'll progress 10000X faster
and the list go's on.

I know quite a few people that started with 50 and 90 size heli..One of my buddy's started with 3 different brand 90's about 2 year's ago.He was up to 37 90 size heli about 4-5 month's ago and is down to 15 or so..The guy is well into 3D because he progressed much faster from the big heli's..I ask tonight if he would start with a smaller 450 if he had to do it all over again and he laughed with a "hell no" ..
If someone want's to start the hobby and has the $$ to start and keep up on a 50/90 size heli,they'll be happy they did ....

...

[flyinghigh450]

Just shows ya a 450 can mess you up just as bad as a 50/90 size heli.The video is a 450 and the pic is a guy that got hit with a 90 ..


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZh3IC86R2U[/ame]





To the poster's that said a 450 can only hurt you and bigger's one's send you to the ER,what do you think after watching that video?Look's like it can do a little more than just hurt you huh?That guy with the 450 was lucky it didn't kill him or put him in a coma .Don't think just because its a tiny 450 it won't clean your clock or stop it because it will..
I had someone ask me how would I feel if a total noob got hurt bad for telling them to start with a 50/90 size heli.Ask yourself the exact same question after watching that 450 video above.What if a noob posted a video like that after you told him to get a 450 size heli?My answer would be the same as your's,I would feel like crap..
Quite a few people have started with 50/90 size heli's so i'll ask this--->
How many noob's have you seen in the safty section with pic's/video's like the one's above from a 50/90 size heli,none.Well there "might" be a few but you'll have to really dig for one..
How many noob have you seen with pic's like above from a small heli,just look at the first few pages...

As long as we have site's like this to let noob's know what can happen and help with setup ect...,any size can be equally safe..

[McKrackin]

I agree.
Start with what you want.

People get hurt more with little ones than bigger ones because they don't seem dangerous.

At least you know at a glance the big helis need some caution and respect.