What kind of motor ???

[ZuvieleTeile]

Almost hit the nail on the head!!

It is a HK3226 which I had as a kit and wound it for this purpose and for 12S.
Who would have thought that a tiny motor like this can swing 710 blades and move a TDR through the air rather swiftly.

Now, if you don't mind guys, what do you think was the winding resp. wire size, which can produce this kind of power???

[ZuvieleTeile]

Here a pic with the 3226 mounted.
Plenty of space in the frame . . . and a fantastic power to weight ratio.
Had to mill a new motor bracket for the smaller mounting circle.
And, after some digging in my boxes, I found some pinions from a previous MPE which fitted the 5mm shaft of the 3226.

So, what is all the fuss about 700 or 750 size motors for a 700 class heli??

This tiny monster does almost everything what his much bigger brothers do.
I am little bit concerned about the small bottom bearing though, which carries all the load of the slanted gear, but hey, so far so good.
Flight time greatly improved. Does easily 10 minutes with full use of its capabilities.

[GMAURO]

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

Here a pic with the 3226 mounted.
Plenty of space in the frame . . . and a fantastic power to weight ratio.
Had to mill a new motor bracket for the smaller mounting circle.
And, after some digging in my boxes, I found some pinions from a previous MPE which fitted the 5mm shaft of the 3226.

So, what is all the fuss about 700 or 750 size motors for a 700 class heli??

This tiny monster does almost everything what his much bigger brothers do.
I am little bit concerned about the small bottom bearing though, which carries all the load of the slanted gear, but hey, so far so good.
Flight time greatly improved. Does easily 10 minutes with full use of its capabilities.

Wow! Thats incredible, and interesting test. Good ZT. I think for 8+8 or 8+9 x0.9/0.95 wire Y termminated, or 6+7 / 7+7 x 1.06 D.
Another possible option is with Y winding, for bigger wire section and less turns.

[Vinger]

3226 Now that is out the box thinking...... Nice one ZT. Pictures of inside of motor and winding specs please?

[Wynn1427]

Just crazy to even think of that size being used in a 700 class machine.

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

...I am little bit concerned about the small bottom bearing though, which carries all the load of the slanted gear, but hey, so far so good...

Is there any way of boring out a larger hole for a bearing in the motor mount? Guessing the motor shaft and snap ring cause some issues. Maybe shim the mounting holes with fabricated ring to address the snap ring but at the expense of mounting the pinion?

Wynn

[ZuvieleTeile]

Here are some inside pics.
I got stuck with milling the motorplate, so this winding, termination and 1000 V test was a quicky on a Saturday morning for the afternoon flying, I did not make any pics during winding.
The termination is not as neat as Dekker does it. Was too much in a rush.

The temps after 8 min of flying have been a little bit on the high side (~80 degr.C) but this was expected in respect of the hard work the little one had to do and the sloppy termination, which covers a lot of the slots and prevents a good airflow.

Winding was a 8+8 with a 0.8mm wire and YY termination. Kv is 621.
No-load Amps at 10 Volt was 0.86.
RM is .043 Ohms
Maybe I could have gone with 1.06 wire, but I was to lazy to try.
For the data-interested guys I'll attach a JLog file. Can be opened with LogView or Data-explorer.

[ZuvieleTeile]

@ Wynn,
the snap ring was not a problem, because I don't use one in the TDR.
I use always very small shims to fill the small distance from the inner bearing race to the pinion and that's it.
Since the TDR has a slanted gear, the pinion gets pulled and no ring is needed.

As for the bearing I am talking about the bearing at the bottom of the bell.This is a 5 x 4 x 11mm bearing, whereas the top one is a little bit bigger. 5 x 4 x 13

The small one sits inside the stator, which is common with most motors and Scorpion as well. So, there is now way to fit a bigger one. And this one carries all the axial load of the slanted gear. . .
I'll see how long it holds up.

[DannyvG]

And I was wondering if the 3226-1400 was powerfull enough for my 510mm blades

But on the other hand, the only limitation to an electric motor power output is how much cooling it gets.
Also the IR of the motor dictates the "stiffness" of load vs rpm-drop but this can be compensated with the governor to a certain extent. So I am not really surprised it can swing 700mm blades and still perform pretty good. Because 100rpm drop in headspeed with kontronik governor isnt bad at all imho.

[helicraze]

Wow so how much weight saving was that and what lipo size?

[ZuvieleTeile]

Originally Posted by helicraze

Wow so how much weight saving was that and what lipo size?

Saved about 300 grams on the motor and nothing on the batteries.
I just used my normal 12S 4000mA batteries.
With the little power consumption I could have gotten away easily with a 2500 or 3000 battery.

Maybe I fly this tiny monster for a while and then rewind it for a 6 or 7 cell battery and see how this goes in the TDR.

Still looking for a even smaller size motor which sports a 5mm shaft. . . .
I am open for donations.

[HeliFX]

ZT,

this has been knocking around my brain as well but I never actually executed this.
Interest to say the least. big believer in weight to power ratio.

safe to say you have not noticed any strange or adverse effects using a motor of this size ?

no overheating, no lack of power, no issue's with spinning the larger blades etc.

hmm something I must try myself
I wonder how well it work in a Diabolo

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

Here a pic with the 3226 mounted.
Plenty of space in the frame . . . and a fantastic power to weight ratio.
Had to mill a new motor bracket for the smaller mounting circle.
And, after some digging in my boxes, I found some pinions from a previous MPE which fitted the 5mm shaft of the 3226.

So, what is all the fuss about 700 or 750 size motors for a 700 class heli??

This tiny monster does almost everything what his much bigger brothers do.
I am little bit concerned about the small bottom bearing though, which carries all the load of the slanted gear, but hey, so far so good.
Flight time greatly improved. Does easily 10 minutes with full use of its capabilities.

[ZuvieleTeile]

HeliFX
The little one does everything from 1225 to 1950 HS.
Could not go lower because of lack of a smaller pinion.
I am down to 14% throttle already. At about 12% the Jive will cut out.
I could use a HeliJive maybe . . . :-)

Just have a a look at the data log. Plenty of power. At least for what I am doing with it.
Big sky loops, FFF, slow motion 3-D etc. etc.
Except for the Jive shut-down on Saturday I did not see any strange behavior.

Maybe I really get the HeliJive out of the drawer and mount it. (This one is waiting for the next, still not really decided project, which will be maybe a TDR-600)

[HeliFX]

that awesome ZT. yeah I did check out the data log but its hard to believe.
hmmm looks like a 3226 may be on my list to rewind and test out

be interesting see how it would hold-up in a diabolo with YGE 160HV.

I'm assuming TDR-600 is a 6S configuration ?

[ZuvieleTeile]

Not sure yet.
I am playing with the idea for a while now and have already a 15mm lower battery tray cut for it. I was thinking about a 10S configuration . . .
Only thing else is a shorter boom and a shorter torque tube.
Ah, and the canopy.
Maybe I cut an old bruised one to size.

[HeliFX]

I'm sure you've seen Timo from Germany run his TDR 6S
I believe it was mostly low head speed.

voodoo from Germany same machine can be run 6S,10S,12S, and 16S

Originally Posted by ZuvieleTeile

Not sure yet.
I am playing with the idea for a while now and have already a 15mm lower battery tray cut for it. I was thinking about a 10S configuration . . .
Only thing else is a shorter boom and a shorter torque tube.
Ah, and the canopy.
Maybe I cut an old bruised one to size.

[ZuvieleTeile]

Yeah, I saw Timo flying it.
A 6S configuration has a much higher current flow for the same amount of work.

I can hover the TDR easily with about 450 Watts.
With 6S that would be around 20 amps flow and with 10S around 12 amps.
And this extrapolates then to higher power-demand maneuvers.

[HeliFX]

i will research this some more.
ZT thanks for being our genuine pig now I can try without worrying too much about blowing up my machine

I will report my findings

[andersn]

I liked guessing, so now a good one, guess both the heli, and the motor, I can include voltage/pwm/timeing later of nobody gets it, the flight was very slow 3d. the peaks are max negative punchout/tests.

[Vinger]

Honey bee king II with a pyro 700, LOL...

[andersn]

Originally Posted by Vinger

Honey bee king II with a pyro 700, LOL...

sadly, not close :p

my honey bee king doesnt have a brushless motor.. that would be madness!!!