Pitch-cyclic and collective

[rctazz]

I finished setting the flybarred head last night. I was dialing in the swash and checking maximum throws for binding and the most I could get was 6.2 degrees cyclic throw before binding. The binding occurs when checing extremes. The head is set up for 'Active' and I currently have it dialed in for 11.5 +/- collective. I was hoping to get to at least 8 on the cyclic and +/-12.5 on the collective.

Does Anyone have any ideas why it would bind so soon?

Thanks
Jim

Edit:
Regarding the picture of the manual below: I currently have the 2 holes on the left and the three holes on the right on the mixing arm (Like the picture below). The highlighted note says "When using the longer side on the swashplate rod, rotate the mixing arm so the longer side is on the left. What does it mean when it says the longer side of the swashplate rod? And if I rotate the mixing arm, where do I put the balls to set up Active?

[questerng]

have you mechanically set your servo to swash push rod to it's max..(with the washout assembly attached so that it's only a hair away from the head block to get max pitch, when you give max stick)

I use to have this problem and found that I'm not having the max pitch with throt stick highest..

The swash would hit the main shaft collar..

but since I re-adjust and lengthen the rod.. I have been able to get more cyclic pitch..

Hope this help..

cheers
Q

[rctazz]

Thanks, I am going back through the entire head setup from the swash up. Then I'll try again.

Or...I'll just go right to FBL.
I Really would like to get the flybarred head setup, I've heard so many great things about the way it flys.

[stang281472]

You shouldnt have any problem getting 8 degrees cyclic. I ran 8 cyclic and + - 14 on collective with the flybarred head on active setting. Can you post a pic of your linkages at center stick zero degrees pitch?


Tom

[rctazz]

I am at work right now but when I wake up tomorrow I will. I am not really sure what is causing the binding. It looks like the swash is contacting the main shaft but I can't feel any resistance when turning the shaft. It is always the right front Aileron servo that binds. The push pull linkages can still be moved when the servo is in a bind state.

Best thing for me to do is go through and verify manual lengths for all of the linkages and start again.

[Jason Bell]

I always try and get the servos to using as close to 0 subtrim as possible. Start there. I usually run 13 degrees of pitch on a flybar model, and about 8 on cyclic. I usually make sure I am not binding on the main shaft with the swash plate at 0 collective and full aileron and elevator input, and if I am, I back of until there is no more binding.

As for head settings, I can't remember what settings "Active" are in the manual, but I am using MS1 and ML3 for the mixing arms.

[rctazz]

After checking cyclic throws each way. I had some substantial differences ( a couple of degrees) from one way to the other both on elevator and aileron. The collective +/- was very close but not perfect. Pretty much why I am going to redo the setup on the head.

I figured out what the manual means about using the "longer side of the swashplate rod" and flipping the mixing arms. The more stable settings have you mount the swash to mixing arm rod in the outer most hole on the longer side of the mixing arm (ML3).

Probably obvious but I just figured it out .

So who can give an explanation of Delta. The manual says (and I quote)
"Lower delta position numbers = More Stability (3D)" ?? " Higher delta position numbers = more response" Yet in the settings chart. Super Active has a resulting delta of "3" and Ultra stable has a resulting Delta of "16" Seems contradictory. Is it a misprint? EDIT: It is a misprint found a post on another forum from Avant stating so.

[rctazz]

Played with the head for about 6 hours tonight. Took all of the linkages off reset them per the manual and started from scratch. Started with the swash then the washout arms and flybar, then the mixing arms and blades. Had to make a few adjustments but nothing crazy. Once everything was setup at 0 pitch, I started dialing in swashmix. When I checked +/- pitch I had 13.3 degrees positive and 13.1 negative (digital pitch gauge). That's close enough for me. I can max it out at about 14.2 degrees positive and negative before the washout base hits the phase adjuster.

I was only able to get about 7.5 degrees of cyclic. The washout arm servo link runs into the swash at max positive of 13.3 degrees. Actually I got 7.9 in one direction and about 7.4 in the other, both Elevator and Aileron. Align flybarred helis usually have a difference in Cyclic It has not caused me a problem to this point. Is there a way to dial out the difference on the Avant using the head hardware. I'm not too worried about it more just curious.

Funny thing happened tonight. I had everything just where I wanted it and was getting ready to call it a night. I wanted to check cyclic and collective one more time so I could write down all of the values including swashmix. Went to check neutral stick pitch and one blade was -1 and the other was -1.5. Turns out the Elevator arm on the CCPM shaft came loose. The thread in the arm did not go all the way through so the set screw did not seat properly. Took it apart and retapped it and everything appears to be fine. I thought about putting some sleeve retaining compound on the the shaft where the elevator arm rides but didn't want to risk getting it somewhere it shouldn't be. That stuff holds like a weld. I might do it when I change out the Sprag bearing since I'll have more room to work. All I have left is to solder up the ESC bullets and make up the Series connection for the battery and I'll be putting it up for a Maiden. After that, I'll build the FBL head.

[rctazz]

I couldn't live with a difference in -/+ pitch and I thought if I made those equal, the Cyclic pitches would be equal. After re-doing the head from the CCPM levers up - 4 times, I finally got the pitch equal at +/- 13 degrees. When I was done the Cyclic pitch were within 0.1 degrees of each other. I can only get +/-13 degrees with 7 degrees of cyclic before the flybar to washout link hits the swash. This is at max positive pitch and max elevator (or aileron depending on how the flybar is orientated. The Mixing arm to swash links are at 90 degrees on both sides and the washout arms are level at center stick

Was anyone else limited by the FB to Mixing arm link running into the swash at max throws? I'm happy with 13 +/- Collective but is there something I can adjust to fix it so I can get more cyclic throw?

I will try to post a picture of the head at center stick and max throws to show what I mean as soon as I can..

[stang281472]

When you set your cyclic throws do it at mid stick not full collective. You will never be full collective with full cyclic during flight. If you set 8 degress cyclic at midstick and +- 13 you will have absolutely no problems

[stang281472]

With full collective and full cyclic at same time they are both combined giving you effectively 20+ degrees on blades (blades stall around a little over 14) Which is why you will never do that in flight.

[rctazz]

Agreed, but you should still check for binding at extremes. That's why they make cyclic rings (or have electronic ones) .

[stang281472]

Of course but again you wont have any issues and cyclic rings are only to keep you out of the corners on cyclic stick. Would make no difference the way you are testing yours

[stang281472]

Even with what you are getting for pitch and cyclic it will fly great. Are you ready to do maiden flight?

[rctazz]

Originally Posted by stang281472

Even with what you are getting for pitch and cyclic it will fly great. Are you ready to do maiden flight?

Yes, I finished this morning. I live in Massachusetts and it is unbelievably warm for the end of January (56 degrees) but it is raining very hard today .

I also have the RigidCore FBL head still in the box, different servo wheels, and the wires for the BeastX waiting to be installed. I just wanted to fly it Flybarred for a bit before switching to FBL.

[stang281472]

Yeah dealing with same weather here in NY. Cool interested to hear what you think of it. Flys amazing both FB or FBL.

[rctazz]

I'm very excited to fly it. First couple will just be in my yard then on to the field.

I'm still messing around with center of gravity (Still a little nose heavy). Jason said that his is off a little towards the front and he doesn't notice in flight. I think the flybarred version will be more affected by CG than the FBL.

[fatboyrob]

mine is the same but i have not had any trouble with drift in any manouvers. is only slightly out with half a tank of fuel. i dont notice it in flifht

[rctazz]

Originally Posted by fatboyrob

mine is the same but i have not had any trouble with drift in any manouvers. is only slightly out with half a tank of fuel. i dont notice it in flifht

Thank you, that is good to hear. I am planning on doing the maiden tomorrow. Might even sneak to the field and get a few flights in if it is not freezing.

[rctazz]

Build is complete, I added 12 grams of weight hidden behind the tail fin and the Heli balances perfectly level regardless of the batteries I use (with the correct placement).

Will Maiden the flybarred version today. Some pictures. And for those that are wondering if Gens Ace 5300 batteries will fit, all these pictures were taken with the Gens Ace batteries installed.

Thanks for all the help from the people in this forum (and for putting up with my bitchin')

I'll let you know how the maiden goes.