Component selection - Intrepid gasser

[cbergen]

In the EB manual, pg 72 section 49 Torque Tube,

"Trim the ends of the arrow shaft approximately 1 inch. Cut one arrow shaft to 16 1/4".......

[lperagallo]

And there's a way to tell if you don't do it!

Lou

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by cbergen

In the EB manual, pg 72 section 49 Torque Tube,

"Trim the ends of the arrow shaft approximately 1 inch. Cut one arrow shaft to 16 1/4".......

Mine is not an EB, it's a Gas, and my manual does not have that language. All it says about cutting the arrow shaft is:

"Mark the measurement starting from the front of the arrow drive shaft. Cut the
arrow drive shaft with a razor saw or hacksaw."

So I just cut one end, the front I think. Looking at the EB manual, I see it uses two lengths of arrow shaft. The Gas uses one long piece, which I guess accounts for the different language.

Lou - your post is pretty alarming! What's the deal, please?

Meanwhile, I have another question: The tail pitch slider is not sliding easily, it's very tight. I can't really tell how much to tighten the bellcrank screw, because it takes so much force to move the slider. I worked it with some tri-flow oil, which is helping, but it's still very stiff. Suggestions?

Thanks everybody, for all the help btw. Good thread!

Stu

[lperagallo]

Lou - your post is pretty alarming! What's the deal, please?

Stu,

That was a joke! I didn't cut the ends off properly and when I was up at Chris' he was looking at my torque tube and said " I see you didn't follow directions" . The anodizing gave me away. If you only cut a small piece off the shafts the anodizing mark is still left. You want to get past the anodizing so you only have the diameter of the tube itself. That way the tube fits over the shafts smoothly. Snug but smoothly.

The other trick you should know about is to make sure there is a little clearance between the end of the arrow shaft and the shoulder of all pieces in the torque tube. If you do that, you will prevent rocking that could lead to a arrow shaft failure if you haven't cut off the ends square. By the way, what did you use to cut the arrow shafts? Don't use a small tubing cutter as it will close down the end and the shafts won't slide on.

Lou

[cbergen]

I keep thinking you have an EB, sorry.

I think Lou means that it may make it difficult to install.

Is the pitch slider hard to move with the bell crank completely off? IOW, the pitch slider all by itself on the shaft.

If so, try cleaning the shaft with 409 to remove any film residue from the grinding process.

If it moves freely by itself, the find out what part is causing the interference, the ball in the cup, the bellcrank, etc.

It may be necessary to remove some material off of the top of the cup that the ball goes into, it may hit the hex part of the ball......

[lperagallo]

Meanwhile, I have another question: The tail pitch slider is not sliding easily, it's very tight. I can't really tell how much to tighten the bellcrank screw, because it takes so much force to move the slider. I worked it with some tri-flow oil, which is helping, but it's still very stiff. Suggestions?

Stu,

The bellcrank bolt should be tightened down snugly. Then back off ever so slightly until the bellcrank runs smoothly. Then holding the bellcrank bolt, screw on the locking nut until it is secure, locking the bolt and assembly.

Also another thing to check is the tail grip eyelets. You thread a 4MM shoulder bolt into the tail grip with lock tight. Make sure that no lock-tight gets on the eyelet otherwise it will not let the eyelet swing free. If the eyelet is tight and not smooth, take it apart and clean the eyelet and bolt of all lock-tight.

This attention to detail will give you a smooth tail setup.

Lou

[cbergen]

If your stuck at this, it may be quicker to call my cell 404-210-1501, I can talk you through it and get you going.

Hey, anyone catch Monster Quest last night? Some crazy fools were out looking for Bigfoot in Ohio!!

[Skiddz]

Nope, but I did see Time Warp with ultra slow motion shots of an RC Helicopter in flight...

Did the Jacuzzi scene make the Monster Quest episode?

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by cbergen

Is the pitch slider hard to move with the bell crank completely off? IOW, the pitch slider all by itself on the shaft.

Yes sir. It's the slider itself. It's hard to move it along the shaft. I first noticed this the very first time I slid the slider - with some difficulty - onto the shaft. This was prior to the tail rotor hub being installed on the shaft; the bellcrank was still in its sealed bag. So the problem is not with the bellcrank. It is not with the blade grip linkages, which work very smoothly. The problem is with the slider and shaft alone. I'm sorry I did not make this clear.

I'll try cleaning the shaft as you suggest. Now that you mention it, it does have kind of a gunky feel to it.

So what's the verdict on the tail gearbox? As I said earlier, the gears do turn smoothly. They're just tight. My concern is that there is no backlash. If I hold one of the bevel gears and its shaft stationary, the other will not turn at all, in either direction. Should I just wait and see if this improves with some use? Should I take it apart and adjust the mesh? Or would you like to see it, Chris?

Originally Posted by lperagallo

By the way, what did you use to cut the arrow shafts?

"Shaft" singular. I used a hack saw, as per the instructions.

Originally Posted by cbergen

I keep thinking you have an EB, sorry.

That's ok! I keep forgetting to check the EB manual, in case of updates!

[lperagallo]

Stu,

Sorry about the shafts comment, I thought you had an EB also. I've never experienced an issue with the slider. Normally you set the tail gears up with no backlash as long as they run smooth. As long as they run smooth with no high spots you should be OK. Do you have a Magnum tail or Industrial tail gear box?

If the shaft is hard to get on either the tail shaft or transmission, you haven't cut enough off the end to get by the anodizing, unless the shaft has a ding in it and not perfectly round.

If you get a break building, edit your profile and list the information about your heli, engine radio and any other info you want to put in so we'll know in the future what you have so we can respond to your questions more accurately.

Lou

[cbergen]

As Lou said, If the gearbox is smooth, no problem. I prefer as little backlash as possible, if it has NO backlash, then it's perfect!! As long as it spins smoothly.

Our grinder uses a combination of stuff as a lubricant, including diesel fuel, which leaves a residue. If cleaning the shaft doesn't smooth it out, I'll get another pitch slider on the way to you.

I'm also curious, you mentioned earlier about the TT, bearing carrier, etc, was tough getting into the boom?

Did you first install the bearing carrier alone into the boom, then slide the TT through the bearing carrier, then install the gearbox onto the TT? I confused myself because I was picturing the EB system, and just want to clarify how you did it.

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by lperagallo

Do you have a Magnum tail or Industrial tail gear box?

Not sure, have to look that up.

...you haven't cut enough off the end to get by the anodizing, unless the shaft has a ding in it and not perfectly round.

I didn't cut any off of the back end of the shaft - I had no idea this was necessary, and the manual (Gas)said nothing about it.

... edit your profile and list the information about your heli...

Will do!

Originally Posted by cbergen

...if it has NO backlash, then it's perfect!! As long as it spins smoothly.

Awesome. It's gotten smoother just from working it. Just wanted to check.

Our grinder uses a combination of stuff as a lubricant, including diesel fuel, which leaves a residue. If cleaning the shaft doesn't smooth it out, I'll get another pitch slider on the way to you.

Cleaning helped - there was black stuff on the inside of the bushing that I think contributed to the problem. The worst spot now is when the slider is out next to the hub - far right. It binds there. Something is a little off, because it binds the worst at one point in the rotation; i.e., the slider is hung up near the hub end, I spin the blades and it comes free. I'm guessing it could benefit from spinning it with some honing compound. That would require taking the gearbox apart, though. I'd be afraid to use anything abrasive next to the bearing.

I'm also curious, you mentioned earlier about the TT, bearing carrier, etc, was tough getting into the boom?...Did you first install the bearing carrier alone into the boom, then slide the TT through the bearing carrier, then install the gearbox onto the TT?

Yes, that was the sequence. The bearing carrier I greased well, and pushed in using a narrow broom handle that I cut off square. That was fairly difficult.

The TT went through no trouble, but getting it onto the gearbox shaft was fiendishly difficult. Getting the gearbox into the boom was even worse. And of course you have to do each of those twice, once to get the measurement to cut the TT and again for final assembly. The dogbone didn't go in easily either.

BTW, I wasn't the first to have trouble with this tail boom. It was all scratched up at one end from somebody else's attempt.

I would HATE to have to take this apart at this point. I did manage to get it all the way onto the gearbox shaft, to the stops. That's something, Lou, that you're saying not to do if I understand correctly? But only because of the possibility that the shaft isn't cut square? The rear end of the arrow shaft should be square, because I don't think it was cut.

Sorry for all this drama, guys. I guess my biggest concern now is still the pitch slider. I'm going to keep lubing and working it and see if it improves.

[cbergen]

The boom was scratched? Or the gearbox? It's possible we used it to test fit something, but it shouldn't have been that bad. We will certainly send you a replacement for future use.

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by cbergen

The boom was scratched? Or the gearbox? It's possible we used it to test fit something, but it shouldn't have been that bad. We will certainly send you a replacement for future use.

Chris, I'm curious: You asked about how I did the assembly and I went over it in my last post. What were you trying to find out?

Yeah, it was the boom, quite a few scratches on one end. It's not all that visible, I'm not pressed about it.

I think my tail rotor should be ok. It still binds like I said, over say 45 degrees out of a 360 rotation. But when it's spinning I don't think the servo will feel it.

I'm about done with the build! I've got to install the Jewel, get all my components situated. Since I've only run electrics, I'll be flying into unfamiliar territory! I'm going over all of the material you've written, Chris, about final setup and engine break in, etc., but if anybody knows of a thread, article, crash report etc. I should read, please point me that way!

[cbergen]

I was confused in my mind, trying to relate what you wrote to the EB.....Some weeks are just so busy, I try to keep up with everything going on, and something gets lost in the translation...

I was just wanted to be sure you had the proper procedure, which you do!!

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by lperagallo

Stu,

I guess we all forgot about another important component. It's call a Z-RC gasket. It replaces the stock intake gasket on the G-26. You will mount the carb with the Z-RC dry. It is important that you line up the pump pulse hole in the gasket to the carb otherwise the engine won't run. You will also need to cut of the bolts just a bit because they need to be shorter when mounting the Z-RC.

Guys, I'm getting ready to re-mount my carb with the Z-RC gasket. So trim the bolts a bit and screw it on with the new, white gaskets, dry. Any other tips?

Is threadlocker used? How tight should the screws be? (I realize they are retightened after it's run a bit).

I also need to mount my muffler. I was looking at this thread on the bergenrc.com forum about using "red rtv" as a gasket and threadlocker for this. Is that still good info? Any other advice on that? [edit:] I see that the red rtv is specified in the bergenrc instructions that come with the upgrade muffler. Also I see that you're not supposed to put that muffler on until after breaking in the engine.

The stock muffler instructions call for threadlocker on the bolts. But should I not use threadlocker, knowing I'll be replacing the muffler soon, with a different type of sealant?

I got some of the Zeal material from BergenRC to use with the gyro etc., and a strongbox for the rx and battery - except that the JR nicad pack I bought is a little too long for the box. I'm thinking about cutting a hole through the end of the box for that.

I could use some suggestions on how to lay out my components. Are there any good threads, photos or whatnot you guys could point me to?

Got in my Jewel today as well. Many loose ends to tie up before launch - I'm itching to fly this thing!

Originally Posted by cbergen

I was just wanted to be sure you had the proper procedure, which you do!!

Well, thanks, that's good to hear! Chris, I should call you to go over things. When might be a good time?

[srhammett]

I don't know what I was doing wrong, but I was having trouble working the gas bottle into place between the lower frame. I managed to nick the corner of the bottle on the corner of the "skid bar".

Can it be patched? The hole is very small, I wasn't sure it was through at first.

I'll be in touch Monday, Chris, most likely to order a new bottle, and hopefully chat with you about things.

Stu

[cbergen]

The instructiosn for the Z-RC do say to use blule threadlocker, just be sure to not get it in between the gaskets, only on the threads.

With the stock muffler, use the Aluminum spacer provided in the KIT, not the one that came with the engine (ours is thicker), and use both paper gaskets, one on either side of the spacer. No threadlock is needed, just tighten the bolts good and snug.

If the battery is too big for the Strong box, keep it outside, I usually hide it UNDER the battery tray. See all those cutouts in the battery tray? They are intended to be used to attach all your components, using zip ties or velcro straps

Route all your wires into the strong box, all the extra length, tucking it in as it were.

Anytime is good, If I don't answer, I'll get back to you as quickly as possible. I try to spend as much time as possible with my kids, so we may be out snowmobiling, snowboarding, etc, but I will call you back when we have a break in the action!!

[cbergen]

The bottle does not go between the frames, it sits just in front of the frames, in the matching cutout area.

It can be tricky feeding it in there with the fittings located where they are, it may be easier to remove the battery tray, then set the two in place together....

Some Zap-a-dap-a-goo or shoe-goo can be used to repair fuel tanks, as well as used as a sealant, if needed, around the fittings. Since the tank is not pressurized, and the Goop is fuel proof, it works pretty good.

[srhammett]

Originally Posted by cbergen

Some Zap-a-dap-a-goo or shoe-goo can be used to repair fuel tanks, as well as used as a sealant, if needed, around the fittings. Since the tank is not pressurized, and the Goop is fuel proof, it works pretty good.

Thanks for getting back to me, Chris, that sounds good. Even though I have plenty of work yet to do, I finally have all the piece's together and it was eating at me that I'd have to wait for a new bottle.

The only other thing I might order from Bergenrc is the crash kit. What's in that? I don't know, everybody (incl. Chris in our first convo) seems to talk like crashes are inevitable with these birds. How come? Because they fly differently, or because of setup problems/stuff vibing loose/engines quitting?

More goodies today! I got in my GV-1 and stator gator, some JR servo arm disks to try as replacements on my 9252's, some JR servo connectors and crimper, wire clips and braided conduit,a fuel pump and other toys. I also got a Spektrum 7 ch. rx for my Mini Titan; I couldn't wait to get it onto my x9303, and I needed an excuse to do some re-wiring on it anyway. Plus an extra channel for lights.

So many devices, so little time to set it all up. But we're having an horrendous stretch of wintery weather here, no flying days in sight. I know I'm a wimp, but my thumbs seize up below 40F.

Plus this morning I ordered the Gary Travis DVD. I didn't know it existed, just stumbled across it in the Bergenrc forum. Has anybody seen it? Chris, any good? I gather he's a Mlue Marble proponent.

And finally, I bought some Eagle Tree stuff. Some of you were dissing Eagle Tree, but I'm getting an optical tach for it, which has got to be useful. I'll be able to log and graph headspeed for a whole flight, rather than just a snapshot. And even watch it life on the ground at zero pitch. Then there's a JR/Spektrum data interface cable to log holds/failsafes, lost frames, and antenna fades; a servo current draw sensor; a cable to monitor throttle (and other servo) movements. How cool, really? I already had a temperature sensor for it, good to 450F. What's not to like?

But ye gads, I'm spending money like - like - like the heli-crack addict I am!

Chris, I trimmed that first canopy today, that one theat had paint chipping off? Tell whoever does those for you, that must have been a bad batch of paint. Chips were just flying off all over the place; every time it flexes I can hear it crackle. I'm going to paint it, though, and it'll be fine for test flying.

Stu