keiths mini protos build thread

[rossk]

Originally Posted by scott s

mks servos in the cyclic slots you def should only be using the center hole, however mks will fit the tail mount just fine with 4 bolts. The cyclics only need the center mounting hole, they will not flex or come out. If you use all the corner holes for cyclic with mks ds95 all you are doing is stressing the servo case and servo mounting plates (not good!)

Thanks scott, I will just use the centre hole, I hope I have damaged anything already...
I don't have those adapter bits like shadco has, will the screws just go in the centre hole? iirc its more like a slot

The MSH reamer is available separately for ~$5

[keither1984]

yes I will when I find someone to record me but beware my flying sucks lol.

I dont think you will feel a flight difference the main reason people are using them is to get the mainshaft to slide in perfectly w/o resistance ive heard it takes alot of time to do with the plastic servo mounts so it is really not a necesarry upgrade but they do look good and make it a little easier to get the mainshaft perfect.

Originally Posted by R3L72

Nice build Keith! Any chance you'll be uploading a flight vid on YouTube?

Question: Can anyone chime in on whether they feel a "difference" in flight (Sport & 3D/Smack) between the Metal Servo Frames versus' the plastic ones?

I have the 3rd CNC Metal Frame and I'm curious if it'd be worth upgrading to Metal Servo Frames.

[R3L72]

Originally Posted by keither1984

yes I will when I find someone to record me but beware my flying sucks lol.

I dont think you will feel a flight difference the main reason people are using them is to get the mainshaft to slide in perfectly w/o resistance ive heard it takes alot of time to do with the plastic servo mounts so it is really not a necesarry upgrade but they do look good and make it a little easier to get the mainshaft perfect.

No worries, I'm definitely no Pro and still learning most of the basic's myself! Heck, I just did my first "Successful" hover with 450's a couple of weeks ago; most of my experience has been with the Ultra Micro's.

The Mini Prôtos I have I bought from a pilot on HeliFreak but haven't maiden her yet. I'm still learning the Mini-V and what it has to offer as I'm mostly experienced in the Walkera 3-Axis and BeastX side of FBL. The Mini I have was flown by a guy that did hard 3D so I know it's setup correctly; I just need to add a Spektrum Sat, pre-flight the whole Heli and I feel she'll fly beautifully.

[scott s]

Originally Posted by rossk

Thanks scott, I will just use the centre hole, I hope I have damaged anything already...
I don't have those adapter bits like shadco has, will the screws just go in the centre hole? iirc its more like a slot

The MSH reamer is available separately for ~$5

Yes, I just use the center hole (slot) with the socket head screws provided in the kit. No washer needed and I make sure the aluminum servo mounts are as far against the servo case on the mks ds95's. Blue locktite ofcourse!

[rossk]

I got another couple of hours done tonight, frame all done and shaft in.
I have a couple of issues though, MSH40111 - hex screw SPECIAL M2x6 is missing from bag C/2 in BOTH my kits!
It is the main shaft lock screw.
I have emailed the supplier to see if they can get some to me, along with the ball link sizer and 325mm SAB blades I ordered that didn't show up, lol

[keither1984]

mine was missing also I just usede one of the screws from the kit 2x6 and its working great if you need any help with vbar let me know i am no master but can definitly help

Originally Posted by rossk

I got another couple of hours done tonight, frame all done and shaft in.
I have a couple of issues though, MSH40111 - hex screw SPECIAL M2x6 is missing from bag C/2 in BOTH my kits!
It is the main shaft lock screw.
I have emailed the supplier to see if they can get some to me, along with the ball link sizer and 325mm SAB blades I ordered that didn't show up, lol
Attachment 320216

[rossk]

Originally Posted by keither1984

mine was missing also I just usede one of the screws from the kit 2x6 and its working great if you need any help with vbar let me know i am no master but can definitly help

Really? I was wondering if it was just me being unlucky with two kits having it missing, but sounds like its more common.
I tried/am using a normal 2x6, the head touches the hole and it sticks out a bit, so I wasnt going to run it like that, shouldnt be hard to replace with correct screw when it arrives tomorrow(supplier is sending me all the missing bits via express today).

I hope to be getting into the vbar later this week and maiden on the weekend!
I have no idea where to start with the vbar setup, hoping the manual and this forum will get me there without too many dramas...

[keither1984]

its a little intimadating at first but once you figure out the setup its really easy just watch mrmels vid in the vbar forum

Originally Posted by rossk

Really? I was wondering if it was just me being unlucky with two kits having it missing, but sounds like its more common.
I tried/am using a normal 2x6, the head touches the hole and it sticks out a bit, so I wasnt going to run it like that, shouldnt be hard to replace with correct screw when it arrives tomorrow(supplier is sending me all the missing bits via express today).

I hope to be getting into the vbar later this week and maiden on the weekend!
I have no idea where to start with the vbar setup, hoping the manual and this forum will get me there without too many dramas...

[Thalios]

Haha, mine was missing also!!

But as Bill @ msh-direct said, these bolts are kinda lame and strip way too easily. Just replace it with a similar bolt from the spare bolts. That's what I did.

[keither1984]

me too I think just a 2x6

[rossk]

Another couple of hours of building, got the head on.
The main shaft hole didn't line up very well with the head hole, but the screw went in, in the end.
It took me a bit to realise that with the low FBL head you don't use the washout hub as the arms go directly onto head, lol
I'm having trouble with the links, I have some ball link pliers but they are no good at putting the links on, as balls are too small for the pliers I have, what pliers are you using?

I have a question about the servo's, when I power them up for the first time, will they go to 0?
I have no idea where that is and am concerned it will be no where near where I want it to be.
I have not used digital servo's before, is it right that they spin around forever, unlike analogue servos that have definite end points? Should I remove them before powering them up from the vbar?

[keither1984]

Well u need to power upthe servos before you even put the arms on im at work but u really need to watch mrmels setup vids before you go any further

[Dylwad]

Yep, dont put the servo arms on until you are at the servo tab in the setup menu.

Not all digital servos will let you rotate the arms all the way around, just the ds95's in my experience do this.

Should be H-3 120 eCCPM with channels 1 and 3 reversed.

Get them as close to 90 degrees as you can, and center them on the trim menu. If all 3 links are the same exact length, you should only need to level the swash in the Vbar setup, not by adjusting the link lengths. Very rarely to I end up with the same exact positive and negative collective pitch, usually within .5 degrees. I just set the collective slider to make the lower side what pitch I want, and dial back the higher pitch using Travel adjust in the TX for the pitch channel.

I had to do very little adjustment to get the swash level at full positive pitch after setting the swash level at 0. I reamed a 450 Pro swash leveler to 6mm

My collective and cyclic sliders are both around 110 using the furthest holes on the arms, and pitch is measured with the blades folded to one side, measuring between the tips, or between the blade tip and table, and inputting the values into Vbar. Very accurate as long as you have the heli clamped down to the bench somehow.

The first time you set up Vbar it can take a while, but after you get the hang of it, you would be surprised how fast you can get your setup perfect again after a crash.

Dont forget to re-bind when your done, and check to make sure the throttle failsafe is correct! (for Spektrum with sat's when binding I set Normal throttle curve to 0-0-0-0-0 and turn on the TX holding the bind button with the collective stick centered) you want the motor to stop if you turn the TX off, an incorrect throttle failsafe is very bad, especially when you turn the TX off while the heli still has power, sitting on the bench! Seen that one too many times....

Dylan

[rossk]

Thanks for tips Dylan
I should get it all together tonight and it will look like heli.
I will probably get to the setup tomorrow night...

I also have a 450 swash leveler reamed to 6mm that I will use(made it before I even had the heli).

Do you just use fingers for the ball links?
I have the set exactly per the manual so hopefully won't have to adjust them...

[spykez]

Originally Posted by rossk

I have a question about the servo's, when I power them up for the first time, will they go to 0?
I have no idea where that is and am concerned it will be no where near where I want it to be.
I have not used digital servo's before, is it right that they spin around forever, unlike analogue servos that have definite end points? Should I remove them before powering them up from the vbar?

If you are using a v-bar you could do what I do.

Thing about this heli is you actually need the servos installed in to build it as it is an important structural component to some degree - as far as holding the servo cage halves together and getting a good alignment for the main shaft.

I set up the servos before they went into the cage. Basically I bound up the v-bar via a spekky sat and set the v-bar up. I just arranged the servos the way they would be and imagined the heli around them.

Just placed them on a table, just did whatever the v-bar software asked - I had studied the instructions and the heli and knew which way the servos needed to move correctly.

Naturally about the only thing I could not set up definitively was collective (and hence midstick 0) and cyclic throw as well as the tail but I made sure the sevo arms were 90 at midstick (as best I could) and did the final v-bar swash mid stick adjustments later when I actually had the heli built round it.

If you have a servo centre thingy that could help.

If I recall you're using all MKS right? The servos are .. I dunno... perfect? They centre well and they do not really chatter much. As to the range of travel, I am not sure if they will do the full 360 although I have to say I *thought* I read somewhere they could.

If you're using the MKS DS95i tail just be careful when you get to the second last setup of the v-bar - it defaults to a centre pulse of 1520 us. That will immediately send your tail servo to bind, so quickly swap it to the correct 760 us setting.

Don't burn out your tail. I think that's the only part of the v-bar setup that somewhat freaked me out.

When you build the servo cage don't tighten everything up. In fact, keep the final bearing block loose too. Drop a main shaft thru'. Make sure you can slide it in and out like it's buttered.

When you're happy then tighten everything. Just go round gradually passing each bolt in turn, tightening each just a wee bit, going on to the next etc, rinse repeat from beginning till everything is nice and snug. Loctite the metal to metal ones - can't recall how many there were, exacty.

I don't have gear or skill like Dylan so I was resorting to a lot of eyeball till I got Lohr's plastic swash leveller - which worked. I'm ordering a 6mm tripod leveller - I'll see if it's any more accurate and precise. Tried to get a 5mm bored out here but that didn't turn out too well.

I measure my pitch with an RC logger. I use a flat swash and zero pitch at mid by the tool drop method thru' blade bolt holes and calibrate the RC logger from there. The mini on the skids tilts the mainshaft a bit to the fore. Bear that in mind if you use the RC logger. The skids are also a bit of a pain as they are a bit bouncy....

[Dylwad]

If it helps my servo to swash links are 53.25mm overall (not center to center) swash to blade grips links are 55.5mm overall.

I use align ball link pliers to get them off, and just push them onto the balls by hand.

My main rotor gain is at 90, tail at 107
Collective slider at 113
Cyclic at 106
Tail limits are 102 and 118, ball on the inner hole on the servo arm.
Cyclic ring at 90, pitch pump 35

Vbar mounted on top of the boom block with 1 layer of 3M grey outdoor tape (4011?) with a small zip tie around the mini and boom block assembly.

Dont forget to keep all of the pulley and motor bearings lubed, I use Trinity Royal Oil, works great.

I replace the tail grip bearings every 50 flights or so, or when the stops get a little harsh. You can find 10 packs of them pretty cheap.

Dylan

[rossk]

Cheers guys for more tips

Another night of building, got the tail done.
It was a little bit more difficult than I thought it would be, I did some things wrong and had to back step a couple of times.
The tail pitch seems a bit sticky and not so smooth, dunno how to fix that.
My tail servo ball was hitting the boom after I did it up the first time, I filed the end of the ball a little bit and it cleared, I see dylan is using the inner hole on the arm, so that will alleviate that issue.
I stripped two grub screws trying to get the tail spindle on the shaft mainly because I had it on and off a few times because of my stupidity(leaving spacer on the shaft etc)
I used CA on the boom supports and control rods as I don't have any 'slow curing epoxy' handy.
As you can see I am using fusuno fins and blades, also have matching canopy, but that will be last...

[red_1030]

Nice builds guys! I'll be starting my build as soon as my order with bearing blocks and servo frames comes in in the next few days.

Not sure if I'm gonna start my own build thread or post it up here just to keep it all in one place. What do you guys think; here or new thread?


Sent from my iPhone

[keither1984]

Post your build here and maybe theyll sticky it never seem a multiple bild thread I think it woild be cool

Originally Posted by keither1984

Well u need to power upthe servos before you even put the arms on im at work but u really need to watch mrmels setup vids before you go any further

[rossk]

Another question I have about the ball links, does the MSH logo always face away from the ball, so it is on the outer side?
The manual is a bit unclear on this, sometimes the links show the logo, sometimes they don't.
I was just assuming the above...