New guy attempting a 450 Clone build, need help.

[Diesel6401]

Good day everyone, newer to the Heli seen, but not to RC. Planes, boats and cars and figured why not try helis. So far I am really liking it and currently own a 120sr and mcpx v2. Looking at building a clone kit and had a few questions.

These are the items I am currently looking at, are these suitable for a decent flying Heli looking to do mild aerobatics and inverted flying?

Frame: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=23037

Motor: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_3550KV.html

ESC: I am huge Hobbywing fan so any re-branded (turnigy, proton ect) hobbywing esc will work. 40 amp range is what I am looking at.

Servo: I would like to try the Solar Servo's has anyone tried them yet? http://www.hobbypartz.com/solar.html I would like to try the digital metal gears, but no clue which ones/size will/would work for my application.

FBL System: I am clueless on however just read a thread and the guy useing a CX-3X1000 is this OK for this build as well and where might I buy one at? I'm located in the US.

RX: I was planning on using a HK 6ch Orange, is that OK or should I take my AR600 out of one of my planes?

Batts: 3s 2200 Gens ace and Sky Lipo.

Radio: DX8

Are the Items selected so far ok? I'm a huge Hitec servo fan love the mg65s and mg85s and I've used the HK HXT900s in some of my planes, but wanted to go digital servos metal gear but the Hitec digital metal gear aren't as pocket friendly as the Solar or other HK servo. This is just a build that I can learn on and keep in the air fairly cheaply and just practice on and not feel nervous about flying something more expensive. I fly my mcpx like I stole it, because it's so cheap to keep in the air and I'm learning so much off of it. Just stinks getting pushed around in the wind sometimes.

[nute53]

Originally Posted by Diesel6401

Good day everyone, newer to the Heli seen, but not to RC. Planes, boats and cars and figured why not try helis. So far I am really liking it and currently own a 120sr and mcpx v2. Looking at building a clone kit and had a few questions.

These are the items I am currently looking at, are these suitable for a decent flying Heli looking to do mild aerobatics and inverted flying?

Frame: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=23037

Motor: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...er_3550KV.html

ESC: I am huge Hobbywing fan so any re-branded (turnigy, proton ect) hobbywing esc will work. 40 amp range is what I am looking at.

Servo: I would like to try the Solar Servo's has anyone tried them yet? http://www.hobbypartz.com/solar.html I would like to try the digital metal gears, but no clue which ones/size will/would work for my application.

FBL System: I am clueless on however just read a thread and the guy useing a CX-3X1000 is this OK for this build as well and where might I buy one at? I'm located in the US.

RX: I was planning on using a HK 6ch Orange, is that OK or should I take my AR600 out of one of my planes?

Batts: 3s 2200 Gens ace and Sky Lipo.

Radio: DX8

Are the Items selected so far ok? I'm a huge Hitec servo fan love the mg65s and mg85s and I've used the HK HXT900s in some of my planes, but wanted to go digital servos metal gear but the Hitec digital metal gear aren't as pocket friendly as the Solar or other HK servo. This is just a build that I can learn on and keep in the air fairly cheaply and just practice on and not feel nervous about flying something more expensive. I fly my mcpx like I stole it, because it's so cheap to keep in the air and I'm learning so much off of it. Just stinks getting pushed around in the wind sometimes.

I would suggest getting the belt-drive version if you are just starting out with the 450's-they are much more forgiving.Also,the 2215 motor is fine for most sport flying & will give longer flight times than the 2218.I have used several of the HK 40 a esc's,& they are still working fine after two yrs. I have been using the Solar D654 servo's recently,& they fit well in the Pro frame-the back elev. servo plastic lugs will need slotted to fit the metal mount as it is just slightly wider -the servo's work great for general sport flying,loops,rolls & flips & holding up well after 40-50 flights.
I have several of the ZYX fbl units/fbl heads on the 450's,& they work very well.Takes some getting used to on setting them up,but after a while it gets easier. The Tarot fbl heads are very nice-I have a couple of those,but the $15 HK fbl heads work well also-they have a bit more play & the grip bearings will need lock-tighted in-they are slightly loose.
The Orange 6ch. 610 Spektrum Rx's work very well in either the fb or fbl version,& bind nicely with my DX6i Tx,& have outstanding range without a satelitte.
I also have a bunch of the Sky 2200 40C lipos,& they are very good,& I am getting 6-7 min. flights for sport flying with the 2215 motors. Hope this helps a little

[Diesel6401]

Hey thanks alot. Beaver Falls nice! I'm orignally from Elizabeth, Pa (just outside of Pittsburgh).

So go with the Belt drive will something like this work?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Shipping...item4165abea3a

This correct?t: http://www.oomodel.com/tarot-zyx-zyx...d-p-61907.html + http://www.oomodel.com/tarot-zyx-3ax...7-p-62109.html


Is the tarot better then the other one I listed? Also swap from the H2218 to the 2215H correct? Thanks!

[nute53]

Originally Posted by Diesel6401

Hey thanks alot. Beaver Falls nice! I'm orignally from Elizabeth, Pa (just outside of Pittsburgh).

So go with the Belt drive will something like this work?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Shipping...item4165abea3a

This correct?t: http://www.oomodel.com/tarot-zyx-zyx...d-p-61907.html + http://www.oomodel.com/tarot-zyx-3ax...7-p-62109.html


Is the tarot better then the other one I listed? Also swap from the H2218 to the 2215H correct? Thanks!

The 450 kit you posted should be ok-I am not familiar with it though. I have gotten (4) of the $68 HK 450GT Pro's (belt drive) from the USA warehouse & they were decent quality.You will eventually swap out some of the shafts,bearings,ect. for Align like I do . HK also sells the Tarot ZYX gyro unit (although it's not listed as Tarot-just type in ZYX gyro on their site & it should come up-sometimes if you wait a better price will pop up too-I got a couple there for as low as $45 ea. The Tarot fbl heads are nicer,& that combo you listed works well-I got a couple of those combo's at first when I started into fbl. The HK $15 fbl head works good,but requires a bit more work up-front to make it tight & quality is not quite as good as the Tarot-but I have a couple of those & they work great.The Turnigy Typhoon 2215 H is a good sport motor & for me has plenty of power for what I do-the 2218 has slightly more power-but you decrease flight times.
Elizabeth,PA.!! We were practically neighbors. Go Steelers

P.S.: The Tarot unit seems to have more support-there are a couple very good threads on RC Groups site for the Tarot (& other low cost fbl units). They have already offered firmware updates,& even have a new "s" version ZYX unit which has satelitte support. The Copter-X CX unit is said to be the same unit internally & up til a few weeks ago had a better price,but they have raised it now,-but most of the users have seemed to say it flys well too.

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by nute53

The 450 kit you posted should be ok-I am not familiar with it though. I have gotten (4) of the $68 HK 450GT Pro's (belt drive) from the USA warehouse & they were decent quality.You will eventually swap out some of the shafts,bearings,ect. for Align like I do . HK also sells the Tarot ZYX gyro unit (although it's not listed as Tarot-just type in ZYX gyro on their site & it should come up-sometimes if you wait a better price will pop up too-I got a couple there for as low as $45 ea. The Tarot fbl heads are nicer,& that combo you listed works well-I got a couple of those combo's at first when I started into fbl. The HK $15 fbl head works good,but requires a bit more work up-front to make it tight & quality is not quite as good as the Tarot-but I have a couple of those & they work great.The Turnigy Typhoon 2215 H is a good sport motor & for me has plenty of power for what I do-the 2218 has slightly more power-but you decrease flight times.
Elizabeth,PA.!! We were practically neighbors. Go Steelers

P.S.: The Tarot unit seems to have more support-there are a couple very good threads on RC Groups site for the Tarot (& other low cost fbl units). They have already offered firmware updates,& even have a new "s" version ZYX unit which has satelitte support. The Copter-X CX unit is said to be the same unit internally & up til a few weeks ago had a better price,but they have raised it now,-but most of the users have seemed to say it flys well too.

I checked on the 450gt pro, out of stock here in the states but in stock in the mainland store http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Compat%5F.html . The zyx unit at HK is out of stock also. I have found a support thread on the tarot over at rcg and even someone with this same heli which is a plus. I guess I have a decision to make. I plan on ordering the motor from HK anyway so maybe I might just buy it all in one swoop and one shipping charge. Ill figure out which motor to snag. The fact you've bought 4 of these kits and they're out of stock in the us tells me they're worth something!

Where and what motor gear should I use?

Thanks again you've really been a great help and GO STEELERS!!!

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

[nute53]

Originally Posted by Diesel6401

I checked on the 450gt pro, out of stock here in the states but in stock in the mainland store http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Compat%5F.html . The zyx unit at HK is out of stock also. I have found a support thread on the tarot over at rcg and even someone with this same heli which is a plus. I guess I have a decision to make. I plan on ordering the motor from HK anyway so maybe I might just buy it all in one swoop and one shipping charge. Ill figure out which motor to snag. The fact you've bought 4 of these kits and they're out of stock in the us tells me they're worth something!

Where and what motor gear should I use?

Thanks again you've really been a great help and GO STEELERS!!!

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

I have been using the 13T gears on the 2215 motors. Seems like popular items will only be in stock for a limited time-then will be out a couple months sometimes- I know I had to shop around for the ZYX units when they started getting popular, same with kits
The forums are great with a lot of information & links to equipment,it is sometimes overwhelming trying to figure out what is best for you. There are so many variables, I can only recommend something that has worked for me.

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by nute53

I have been using the 13T gears on the 2215 motors. Seems like popular items will only be in stock for a limited time-then will be out a couple months sometimes- I know I had to shop around for the ZYX units when they started getting popular, same with kits
The forums are great with a lot of information & links to equipment,it is sometimes overwhelming trying to figure out what is best for you. There are so many variables, I can only recommend something that has worked for me.

Yea I'm use to HKs out of stock nonsense. Been dealing with them for about 3 years or so. Thanks for the tip on gears, I found a varity pack on ebay with 4 gears in it and I'm pretty sure the 13T was one of them. Yes doing a search of clones on this forum and rcg is just completly overwhelming and lots of terms I'm not use too. Thanks again for all your help and if its proven to work I'm all about that, takes the guess work out.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

[satgod]

you can get the exi clone for a little more but shipping is in the USA

http://www.xheli.com/exi450.html

its 70.00 in the belt or the tt version
the sport version is 68.00
and the pro version with a se2 v2 head is 57.00

your ordering your servos from xheli so you could get the heli there as well
just a thought

the HK zyx gyro is a tarot zyx or thats what everyone that has gotten one has said
some of the videos of it even says tarot on the gyro plain as day

so its a decent cheap gyro
get the usb cable for sure, and possibly the tarot program box

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by satgod

you can get the exi clone for a little more but shipping is in the USA

http://www.xheli.com/exi450.html

its 70.00 in the belt or the tt version
the sport version is 68.00
and the pro version with a se2 v2 head is 57.00

your ordering your servos from xheli so you could get the heli there as well
just a thought

the HK zyx gyro is a tarot zyx or thats what everyone that has gotten one has said
some of the videos of it even says tarot on the gyro plain as day

so its a decent cheap gyro
get the usb cable for sure, and possibly the tarot program box

Thank you! They look good. I have a question though, what's the difference in the belt drive ones?

Here's the $70: http://www.xheli.com/18h18-exi450pro-belt.html
Here's the $68: http://www.xheli.com/18h17-exi450-sport.html
Here's the $57: http://www.xheli.com/18h15-cf450-v3-kit.html

I don't really now what the differences are between them and what the sport and pro mean? Can one of you fine gentleman shine some light on this???

Str8 newbie question I'm sorry , gotta ask to learn though. Please forgive my newness.

[FelixTC68]

Originally Posted by Diesel6401

Thank you! They look good. I have a question though, what's the difference in the belt drive ones?

Here's the $70: http://www.xheli.com/18h18-exi450pro-belt.html
Here's the $68: http://www.xheli.com/18h17-exi450-sport.html
Here's the $57: http://www.xheli.com/18h15-cf450-v3-kit.html

I don't really now what the differences are between them and what the sport and pro mean? Can one of you fine gentleman shine some light on this???

Str8 newbie question I'm sorry , gotta ask to learn though. Please forgive my newness.

Hi Diesel,
The differences in the EXI kits are as follows:

$68 EXI 450 Sport - Has a 2 piece frame, sport head and tail. I believe this is the same as Align SE. Better head and tail than the cf450 V3 but the frame is an older design. Tail servo is boom mounted vs frame mounted in the other 2.
$57 EXI cf450 V3 - Has a 1 piece frame like the Pro but has a lower quality head and tail. This means no "Chinese Weights" on the tail grips and no solid links on the head. For the price, this seems like the best value and the kit that I bought. In hindsight, I wish it had bought the Pro kit.
$70 EXI 450 Pro Belt - Has the upgraded Pro head and tail with the Pro 1 piece CF frames. Again, in hindsight, I would have bought this kit over the cf450 V3 because of the tail and simplified head. Didn't seem worth the $13 at the time but it does now!

You can see the differences if you look closely at the pictures in their site. Hope this helps.

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by FelixTC68

Hi Diesel,
The differences in the EXI kits are as follows:

$68 EXI 450 Sport - Has a 2 piece frame, sport head and tail. I believe this is the same as Align SE.
$57 EXI cf450 V3 - Has a 1 piece frame like the Pro but has the same head and tail as the sport above. This means no "Chinese Weights" on the tail grips. For the price, this is the best value and the kit that I bought. I wish it had the better tail though...
$70 EXI 450 Pro Belt - Has the upgraded Pro head and tail with the Pro 1 piece CF frames. In hindsight, I would have bought this kit over the cf450 V3 because of the tail. Didn't seem worth the $13 at the time but it does now!

You can see the differences if you look closely at the pictures in their site. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the quick reply. So a 1 piece frame is better?

How does the $70 frame compare to this frame?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Shipping...ht_4897wt_1110

[FelixTC68]

Originally Posted by Diesel6401

Thanks for the quick reply. So a 1 piece frame is better?

How does the $70 frame compare to this frame?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Shipping...ht_4897wt_1110

That heli looks exactly like the EXI 450 Sport. Better tail, simpler head but not as good as the EXI 450 Pro head. I don't think that the 1 vs 2 piece frame is a big deal but the one piece design puts the servos in a better position in relation to the swash plate. All of the links between the servos and swash are the same length, which is supposed to me more "Ideal". The older 2 piece design has unequal length links to the servos.
That ebay auction is cheap and the seller is in the US but I think I would still buy from Xheli because they will make any issues right.
Another source that I used for my electronics is http://www.valuehobby.com/. They have the Tower Pro MG90 servos in stock and also carry Hobby Wing ESCs, motors and LiPos. Very reasonable and fast shipping.

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by FelixTC68

That heli looks exactly like the EXI 450 Sport. Better tail, simpler head but not as good as the EXI 450 Pro head. I don't think that the 1 vs 2 piece frame is a big deal but the one piece design puts the servos in a better position in relation to the swash plate. All of the links between the servos and swash are the same length, which is supposed to me more "Ideal". The older 2 piece design has unequal length links to the servos.
That ebay auction is cheap and the seller is in the US but I think I would still buy from Xheli because they will make any issues right.
Another source that I used for my electronics is http://www.valuehobby.com/. They have the Tower Pro MG90 servos in stock and also carry Hobby Wing ESCs, motors and LiPos. Very reasonable and fast shipping.

One again thank you very much! All of different frames are a lot to take in. I will give the EXI 450 Pro a lot of consideration. Safe to assume any Align 450 Canopy will fit?

O yea I think I've dealt with value hobby a few times in the past. Forgot about them. I've been using the Hobbypartz Proton esc's a few times... Just re-branded hobbywings, I even use the hobbywing programming card on them. Man I love Hobbywing escs!

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by nute53

I have been using the Solar D654 servo's recently,& they fit well in the Pro frame-the back elev. servo plastic lugs will need slotted to fit the metal mount as it is just slightly wider -the servo's work great for general sport flying,loops,rolls & flips & holding up well after 40-50 flights.

Can I use the D654 servo's on everything even the tail?

[Diesel6401]

Whats the chances this is worth a darn? http://www.xheli.com/dy450brmoes9.html

Am I pushing my luck that this would work have decently? I could keep it flybar for a little to learn on then go to flybarless setup.

[RedOctobyr]

FelixTC68, can I ask a question about the frames? I'm in a similar situation to Diesel6401. Bought an mCP X V1 last year, love it, and am looking at building a 450. I'd like to go flybarless.

I'm leaning towards a 450 Sport-type kit (I've heard good things about the Tarots), primarily because I don't want a torque tube tail trying to strip gears every time I mess up with the tail. People say belt-drive is better when you're learning.

I haven't really looked into the Pro kits, because of the tail drive. But I do know there are some belt-driven Pro clones, like the EXI being discussed, which would get around the tail-durability issue.

From what I've gathered, the Pro head is a little better, and the frame is maybe a bit stiffer than the Sport. But besides the TT tail issue, I've also heard that the Pro frame is quite small, like it's tough to fit everything in it. And that it's also hard to fit the servos, or to work on them, etc. Have you found that to be the case?

I've kind of skipped over the Pros for these reasons. Is that a mistake? I don't need a 5% stiffer frame for hardcore 3D purposes, or anything like that I want a solid machine that I can continue learning with.

And this thread has been very helpful to me, thanks for the good info! If I can ask one more, I see there is a Hobbywing Pentium 40A ESC, and a Platinum 40A. I like the fact that the Platinum can output 6V, for better servo performance. But I've also seen people say you should use an external BEC, to reduce the risk of burning up your ESC. Should you not use the built-in BEC, at least on these cheaper units?

[EGG_]

http://www.xheli.com/60h-8918-erazor...n-rtf-24g.html

Just buy this and be done...!

I almost went that route then decided I was more serious and went with a Tarot 450 pro v2 flybarless super combo ($280), but then didnt even fly the chinese electronics and went all out, hitec 5065mg, hitec 5084mg, castle phoenix ice 50, neu 1107h/2.5y 3.2, Tarot ZYX, DX7.

The Tarot quality is the same as align for half the cost, Its the only clone I would suggest for serious use.

BUT...The dynam will let you know if your really into helicopters without all the headache of building, programing, setting everything up correctly ect..

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

FelixTC68, can I ask a question about the frames? I'm in a similar situation to Diesel6401. Bought an mCP X V1 last year, love it, and am looking at building a 450. I'd like to go flybarless.

I'm leaning towards a 450 Sport-type kit (I've heard good things about the Tarots), primarily because I don't want a torque tube tail trying to strip gears every time I mess up with the tail. People say belt-drive is better when you're learning.

I haven't really looked into the Pro kits, because of the tail drive. But I do know there are some belt-driven Pro clones, like the EXI being discussed, which would get around the tail-durability issue.

From what I've gathered, the Pro head is a little better, and the frame is maybe a bit stiffer than the Sport. But besides the TT tail issue, I've also heard that the Pro frame is quite small, like it's tough to fit everything in it. And that it's also hard to fit the servos, or to work on them, etc. Have you found that to be the case?

I've kind of skipped over the Pros for these reasons. Is that a mistake? I don't need a 5% stiffer frame for hardcore 3D purposes, or anything like that I want a solid machine that I can continue learning with.

And this thread has been very helpful to me, thanks for the good info! If I can ask one more, I see there is a Hobbywing Pentium 40A ESC, and a Platinum 40A. I like the fact that the Platinum can output 6V, for better servo performance. But I've also seen people say you should use an external BEC, to reduce the risk of burning up your ESC. Should you not use the built-in BEC, at least on these cheaper units?

The mcpx is AWESOME i bought the v2 last month and freaking love it! Really sparked the heli interest. I have a 120sr also. I maybe able to help your bec question.When I fly my planes if its a plane a care about I put a ubec in it just in case something happens to the esc while im flying. If its a cheap plane I use the esc bec and fly it like I stole it lol... If I build a nice worth a darn heli I will use a ubec. Just my 2 pennies.

[RedOctobyr]

I had an mSR, then bought the mCP X V1 the day it came in at my LHS (I was eager to try CP). It's a fantastic learning tool, and a lot of fun. Even more so once I went brushless; now it can do a lot more. Which has let me also do more, though it's still capable of much more than I am

Good tip on the external UBEC. I did see someone mention that same suggestion. If you kill your ESC in the air, an external BEC may give you a chance to put it down with a quick auto, vs just plummeting from the sky. For something like a heli (for me, "even" a 450 is expensive; I can't imagine flying something like a 600), it would seem worth the money for an external BEC.

I know everything can run on 4.8V. And many cyclic servos are OK with 6V. But tail servos that I've looked at don't seem to always list 6V. Do you sometimes need to supply a tail servo with 4.8V, in addition to 6V for cyclics? So maybe 4.8V from ESC (tail servo), and 6V from external BEC (cyclic, RX, and FBL)?

Sorry for sticking my nose into your thread, Diesel6401.

[Diesel6401]

Originally Posted by RedOctobyr

I had an mSR, then bought the mCP X V1 the day it came in at my LHS (I was eager to try CP). It's a fantastic learning tool, and a lot of fun. Even more so once I went brushless; now it can do a lot more. Which has let me also do more, though it's still capable of much more than I am

Good tip on the external UBEC. I did see someone mention that same suggestion. If you kill your ESC in the air, an external BEC may give you a chance to put it down with a quick auto, vs just plummeting from the sky. For something like a heli (for me, "even" a 450 is expensive; I can't imagine flying something like a 600), it would seem worth the money for an external BEC.

I know everything can run on 4.8V. And many cyclic servos are OK with 6V. But tail servos that I've looked at don't seem to always list 6V. Do you sometimes need to supply a tail servo with 4.8V, in addition to 6V for cyclics? So maybe 4.8V from ESC (tail servo), and 6V from external BEC (cyclic, RX, and FBL)?

Sorry for sticking my nose into your thread, Diesel6401.

A ubec just saved me a few weeks ago with the 3rd flight of a new plane. My motor cowl slide and wedged between the firewall and prop in flight. The extra amp draw caused be the resistance caused my esc to go into over-load protection, the ubec allowed me full control of everything and I was able to drop my gear,lower my flaps and come in for a text book perfect landing even w/o power to the motor. Needless to say I was happy that I installed a ubec. Typically the more servos you add the more work for the esc which means added heat. Some of the real cheapo esc's aren't true to there amp listing meaning they're listed higher then they can actually handle which causes issues. That's one reason I trust hobbywing esc's so much. I have data-logged them holding true to rating and even handling loads higher then they're rated for. I use them in everything: boats, planes and cars. In boating the amp draw is retarded high. It's easy to pull 150+amps in a semi-mild setup. I data logged almost 300 amps in a very large mono on 6s2p.

I've had good luck with the Hifei esc's as well. They really run strong. The throttle sensitivity is not as good as on the hobbywing (at least the boat esc's aren't), but they run really strong. The make a air esc w/ build in data logging that I really want to try, especially since I already have the usb link. If I can get good reliability and built--in data logging without CC Ice prices that would be sweet. http://www.himodel.com/electric/HIFE...ESC-40A-K.html

And no problem sticking your nose in this thread. We're here for the same thing. Have any questions feel free to ask, and I'm sure one of these fine gentleman will help you out just as they've been helping me.




Thought I would share.
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