Time to go bigger?

[tbone77]

I've currently got 2 mcpx's and have recently gotten into a sim. The mcpx's have been great to learn basic stuff on and they crash really well. They currently need a few things but are both still flying ok.

I'm now at the point that I can either keep flying these or move onto something else. I have considered the mcpx bl but it doesn't seem that much different than the ones I currently have.

Ideally I'd like something bigger and easier to see. The 130 doesn't interest me as it seems to be more work than it's worth to keep it flying.

I have considered going to a 450x and possibly adding a FBL control with a bailout feature.

I am still working on solid hovering and inverted but am quite proficient at getting the heli tail in and upright when it gets out of hand. Having a bigger easier to see heli would allow me to keep it higher and have more time to save it if(when) needed.

That brings me to another question about radios. I have a dx6i which suits me fine but the guy at the LHS says I need at least 7ch to properly fly a 450(something about needing ch7 for the gyro).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[jbrandt]

Originally Posted by tbone77

I've currently got 2 mcpx's and have recently gotten into a sim. The mcpx's have been great to learn basic stuff on and they crash really well. They currently need a few things but are both still flying ok.

I'm now at the point that I can either keep flying these or move onto something else. I have considered the mcpx bl but it doesn't seem that much different than the ones I currently have.

Ideally I'd like something bigger and easier to see. The 130 doesn't interest me as it seems to be more work than it's worth to keep it flying.

I have considered going to a 450x and possibly adding a FBL control with a bailout feature.

I am still working on solid hovering and inverted but am quite proficient at getting the heli tail in and upright when it gets out of hand. Having a bigger easier to see heli would allow me to keep it higher and have more time to save it if(when) needed.

That brings me to another question about radios. I have a dx6i which suits me fine but the guy at the LHS says I need at least 7ch to properly fly a 450(something about needing ch7 for the gyro).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Okay, first, the guy at the LHS is trying to sell you that pretty little DX7 he has in the case, so of course he's going to tell you you can't fly a 450 with a DX6i. Seeing as how the 450X RTF comes with a DX6i, you should be fine with yours. channel 5 is pitch, channel 6 is the gyro.

That said, I should be getting my 450X on saturday, and I plan to fly the crap out of it, and I'm coming off a nano CPx and 120SR. This is my first "large" heli.

The thing I'm about to test out is that if you can fly a nano (or mCPx) you can fly anything. They are small and twitchy, so the bigger helis are generally more stable. They're also more intimidating and more expensive to crash...

I can't say I know all that much about FBL systems with bailout, except that I'd imagine they're pretty expensive, and the BeastX that comes with the Blade 450X is pretty much bombproof - people buy the 300X and 450X JUST for the BeastX. The 200SRX has SAFE with bailout, but then you'd be taking a step "back" with a fixed pitch. That said, I've seen videos of the 200 doing loops!

If you get a 450x V2 (upgraded servos and motor), get yourself some cheap blades (I got some for $14 a set), and take your time with it. Work with the sim and your mCPX, to gain skills, and start slow with the 450 to gain confidence with the larger machine.

[Highspeed1964]

Firstly, yes. It sounds like you would enjoy moving to something larger and a 450 is not a bad choice to move to. I agree that the 130x is a high-maintenance aircraft but it has three things going for it.

1. Size - moving to a 450 from the mCPX can seem quite daunting at first due to the shear size difference as well as the power, sound differences, etc. The 130x is a good step up for this reason as it doesn't have that same tendancy to overwhelm the pilot as much.

2. Unlike the mCPX, it has a syncronized tail rotor. Instead of seperate motor to drive a fixed pitch tail rotor it uses a variable pitch rotor which is driven (through gears) by the main motor through gears and a torque tube (like a drive shaft in your car) to keep the tail rotor rotating at a fixed RPM ratio with the main rotor. This results in a much steadier tail than with the mCPX.

3. Maintenance - let's face it... you're going to crash at least a couple of times; more if you do more agressive flying. You will break less parts with the lower mass of the rotor components and these parts are generally less expensive than they are in a 450 class heli.

However, especially in re: to item 3 above, let's not forget about time vs. money. I personally enjoy working on or tinkering with the helis just as much as I do flying them. But more so when it's preventive/upgrades/tinkering vs. break-fix. So if/when I do crash, I'd rather be able to dig in, replace the part and be back in the air rather than sitting at the bench chasing down some unknown vibration issue. Since the 130x is notorious for tail vibrations, time becomes more of an investment than the cost of repairs.

Since moving up to the 450 as I am flying now, I have not looked back at my 130 but maybe once or twice early on in my 450 transition. Since I have effectively shelved the 130 it is an "investment" gone to the way-side. Yes it provided me with a good transition into more realistic CP helis while avoiding the intimidation of the larger scale, but many have gone to a 450 without fear.

So it becomes a matter of personal taste and skill. The 130 could be reactivated in my case as a small back-yard type of flier if I desire (I actually learned to hover/slow-fly it in my apartment living room!) so it's not that much of a lost investment. On the other hand, if you go straight to a 450 and find it's too intimidating to you at first, you can bench it and get a 130 then go back to the 450 when you feel a little more confident.

With the flybarless technology available now days, the leap to a 450 may not be as intimidating as it would have been a couple or so years ago.

Not sure if this actually helps, but at least I hope this gives you perspective to ponder on both options.

In regards to your second question, as jbrandt says you do not need a 7 channel to fly a 450 in most cases. (There is one or two fly-barless controllers that might require it, but I cannot recall which ones or if that is still the case.) A 450 flies the same as a 130 from an electro-mechanical perspective so it becomes a matter of electronics choices that would dictate the need for a 7th channel. Just do your due diligence in research once you have made your choice of helicopter/electronics (or at least narrowed your choices down) and you'll know weither you need that dx7 or not.

Highspeed

[Imzzaudae]

The guy at the hobby shop likely just needs more education. You can do everything you need with your DX6i.

If you are considering 450X you need to watch this a few times.

Blade 450 X Setup Tutorial: Parameters Menu Adjustments (10 min 12 sec)

It's time to be very honest with yourself when it comes to your piloting skill level.

Can you take off and hover MCPX. Forward flight and turns well ?
Can you take it up 100' fly it all over the park, bring it back in one peace.
Slowing and stopping from high speed ?
Fly approaches that automatically put the helicopter tail in?

Taking off and flying 300X or 450X is not at all a hard for someone that can fly MCPX.
Not so for someone that can barely hover!

The fun begins when you tell it move forward or climb. These helicopters have many many times the power of MCPX and they go like a scared rabbit.

You best be ready! 450s are homesick angels and climb like you won't believe!

This is where you will need to keep it together! One second the helicopter will be hovering in front of you the next it's going 50mph away from you climbing through 300'
and you best be able to turn it around and fly it back or it's by by baby!

What I'm trying to say is simply this.
If you can fly don't be afraid of 450. Properly set up, they do fly much nicer than micro!
Once you get past the first lift off your going to be loving it.

Set the helicopter up soft until you get used to it and you should be away!

Do not lower the head speed on a belt or shaft drive tail helicopter!
Keep the head speed up around 80% even for takeoff and hovering and the helicopter will feel rock solid.

Hope this helps you.
Ron

[minatrix]

You absolutely do not NEED another transmitter. There are benefits, such as 3 flight modes, backlit screen, more flexible programming, smoother gimbals. One thing I particularly do not like about the dx6i is that the throttle hold switch cannot be reassigned, and flying pinch I much prefer throttle hold on the TOP right switch. But you can fly any electric with a 6 channel tx.
As for the 450x, or any other 450, it will have much more power than you are used to, and expect to start slowly again.
I would recommend building a heli. The Gaui X3 has many happy fliers, and it's price is pretty good, but you will wind up a little more expensive than a blade 450. Don't forget to factor a new charging setup into the budget, you'll need one unless you already have it.
The ar7200bx while not BAD, is almost end of life, and there are better fbl units for the same cost. Look up its "right roll of death". Units such as the Ikon (my personal recommendation, although it may be replaced soon) or the new Spirit (May prove to be great, but is still very new and has little user base) will have features such as self level / bailout, pc programming, and better vibration tolerance. Bank switching on the ikon is nice, but without a 3 position switch using all banks is more complicated, and with only 6 channel tx setting tail gain must be done in fbl unit making tail tuning more tedious, but all can be done. If a self level mode is not important to you ( I like having a lot ) , the Robird is a great unit that's only $79.
Do some thorough reading on here and buy whatever appeals to you. Buying used can be a great way to save some money, just be prepared to tear it down and rebuild it before you fly it. Building a heli is rewarding, and even a bind'n'fly will crash, repairs are easier if you built it from a kit, as your already familiar with all of it's parts.
A used 300X would be much less intimidating, and you could fly it for a month and resell it and get a proper 450, not taking much of a loss in the process.
The new breed of 450's (gaui x3, warp360, look into these 2) swing 360mm blades and are larger, better flying machines than a 325mm heli. They will all be quite intimidating coming from a nano. The 130X has just dropped in price, flies much better than a nano, and will definitely feel like a step up. A 450 can inflict serious harm, and crash cost, so be prepared. I would recommend an AMA membership and joining a flying club.
Whatever you choose, good luck and happy flying! Fly safe!

[minatrix]

Originally Posted by tbone77

I am still working on solid hovering and inverted but am quite proficient at getting the heli tail in and upright when it gets out of hand.

I'm not sure what you mean by "solid hovering" when you include working on inverted, but if this means you are still working on upright hovering, you absolutely are not ready for a 450. There was a day, but that's history. Today it's micros. You should be able to lift off, hover in all upright orientations, enter forward flight and at least execute stall turns, return home and land, very reliably. Very. You should be able to zoom that micro all over the place. I say a minimum of 40 hours sim time and 100-200 flights on a micro, but we all learn at different rates. Fly 20x 5 minute flights on the sim, consider every crash is minimum $50 and a week without flying, and hours fixing. Not to mention the risk of personal injury. Look up photos of rc inflicted injuries, it's not pleasant but you need to understand the risks.
That being said, once your ready, build a badass 360 (450) and fly the heck out of it!
If your not ready for a 360 the 130x will be great.

[majorlemond]

I think a 450 is a great step forward. The fact it has some weight really adds to the stability and will be much easier to fly than your mcpx. No need to spend big cash either, a dx6 will have more than enough features to see you through for a long time.

Just do some research, and find something within your budget that suits.

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by tbone77

...
I am still working on solid hovering and inverted but am quite proficient at getting the heli tail in and upright when it gets out of hand. Having a bigger easier to see heli would allow me to keep it higher and have more time to save it if(when) needed.

That brings me to another question about radios. I have a dx6i which suits me fine but the guy at the LHS says I need at least 7ch to properly fly a 450(something about needing ch7 for the gyro).

You can fly any size heli with a DX6i. Standard channels for a Spektrum heli are:
1 - Throttle, 2 - Aileron, 3 - Elevator, 4 - Rudder, 5 - Gyro, 6 - Collective. That ALL of them.

7 channels and more are once you start getting governors to regulate head speed, or modifying FBL parameters in flight (so speak a person who uses something which at times feels like a handheld 16ch supercomputer )

As others like Imzzaudae have said, check your flying skills. 450 and above can be like mini rockets (lets not get into the ICBMs (intercontinental ballistic missiles) that are 700s).

Have a read of: https://www.helifreak.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=15 may give you some ideas. It's one of ColinSoutherns early adventures with a 450.

[tbone77]

Thanks for all the input.
I can hover pretty well but am not very good when inverted. I can take off, fly around and land the mcpx without any problems, the issue comes when I try new stuff like flips and big loops. I think the sim will help though I find the sim much harder to hover and fly than the mcpx in real life(some have suggested that the sim needs to be set up differently).

I don't plan to fly crazy 3D but rather just some normal flying around.

I'll likely keep the mcpx's also and try new stuff on them before trying on the bigger heli.

[minatrix]

Fly a 700 in the sim. Nothing else.
Which sim?

[tbone77]

I've heard that from someone else too, said don't fly the 450 or smaller in the sim.

My LHS sells blade and stocks all the 450x parts which is why I'm thinking of that one. I'll look into the other suggestions.

As for charging I am setup for cars with 3s so have that covered.

[tbone77]

I've been using helix

[ArchmageAU]

Originally Posted by minatrix

Fly a 700 in the sim. Nothing else.
Which sim?

+1.

700's in the sim react more like real heli. Micro in sim tend to feel all wrong.

If you can, reduce the rotor speed of the 700 in the sim to dull down the "overpowered" feel, but not so much you loose tail control.

[jbrandt]

Originally Posted by tbone77

I've heard that from someone else too, said don't fly the 450 or smaller in the sim.

My LHS sells blade and stocks all the 450x parts which is why I'm thinking of that one. I'll look into the other suggestions.

As for charging I am setup for cars with 3s so have that covered.

I've actually found that flying a variety of helis in the sim is helpful. I fly everything from the 300x all the way to the Chinook and the tilt rotor (I have Phoenix), even the nano sometimes (if I've been drinking ). NONE of the helis in the sim fly exactly like their real life counterparts. They just don't, but everyone is right that the smaller you go, the worse their physics gets. Use the sim for orientation and reflex control, not to teach yourself how to fly a specific helicopter.

[HeliBladeSR]

So how long have you been flying with your current mcpx's?

[tbone77]

I've been flying the mcpx's for over a year on and off. I spent a bunch of time learning to fly in the past then didn't look at them for months. Getting back into it now.

[HeliBladeSR]

Everyone progresses at their own speed, so without actually anyone see you fly it's hard to tell if it's time to try a bigger heli. Don't want to see you get borded with the smaller heli's too.
The bigger heli's do require more space to fly, so hopefully this is not an issue where you live.

You may want to think about 300 to 450 size.

One thing you will find is that the bigger heli should be more stable and should handle some wind as where the smaller would be grounded. They also can go faster too, so I would take it easy until you get adjusted to the bigger size. Start off in big open space with no one around you.

[tbone77]

I have some big areas to fly and plan to tame down any heli I get.

[Russell Harding]

"40 hours sim and 200 hours flight"

Reverse that and I agree. I was upright and inverted in all orientations before I moved up. Time and patience pays off. I didn't go to a 450 until I was piro flipping and no 700 until I could already smack 3D.

Unless you are made of money, keep it simple, cheap(er), safer, and less intimidating to keep progressing.

[minatrix]

Agreed. Cheap & safe = Progress