A nightmare with my Align ESC and juddering motor

[venton]

** EDIT ** thanks for responses, I am sending ESC and Motor back to be checked ***

I just finished building my Trex 450 pro DFC and gave it a maiden hover yesterday, no problems.
On re-reading the manual, I noticed I had ESC electronic timing set to Low, but recommendation is to use Mid timing.
I have the RCE BL35P ESC with Spektrum AR7200BX.
It is very hard to get the ESC into programming mode with the AR7200, I have to do all sorts of messing around, powering receiver from external supply, removing red wire etc etc.
So I managed to re-program the ESC with Brake mode off, Timing mode Mid, Battery protection High, Aircraft mode 2, throttle response high, BEC 5.5V.
When I now tried to spool up heli, the motor was just juddering. I loosened motor pinion, and it still shuddered. I gave the motor more throttle and it span up on zero load, but had no power, I could stop it with my finger.
I thought it didn't like Mid mode, so put it back to Low timing. Same thing - motor just juddered.
And to finally cap it off, every time I power up the heli, the damn ESC goes into programming mode even though throttle is on low.
I am really frustrated!!
Can anyone help?

specifically... Any ideas why motor is juddering or spinning with zero power? I had also moved the esc around so possibly could have bent a wire.


Thanks

[wanderer56]

Don't have the manual handy, but are you running govenor? Your TC may be too high for gov mode? Not sure about why the esc goes into programming mode, but double check you TC's and subtrim for throttle channel. It's seeing high throttle from somewhere or has gone bad.

Give us a little more info on your set up. What tx. rx and TC's.

Also try mid cut-off for your battery protection.

Check for a broken solder joint also since you suspect you may have damaged a wire.

[venton]

Hi

No not running governor mode. I managed to get round the programming issue by binding on high throttle and then binding on low throttle.

But still no power. The motor will spin but slight finger pressure causes it to stop and judder. Not enough power to spin blades at all.

For testing I am using normal mode on transmitter so throttle goes from 0 - 100.

I tried programming ESC in airplane mode, so no soft start etc, but no difference.

It a Spektrum DX9 with Spektrum AR7200BX and Align RCE BL35P ESC. Motor is Align 450MX.

I did a test on internet on motor where I span it up in a drill, and any two wires gave small ac voltage.I checked resistance between any two motor wires and they are all 'infinite'.

I wonder if it's a bad solder joint under the heat wrap on the ESC but don't really want to cut that, as motor and esc are new and I wouldn't be able to exchange then.

thanks

[kenkadish]

What beeps are you getting?

Mine are...

1
2
1
2
1

Hope that helps.

Ken

[venton]

Cheers Ken, I've tried many combinations of beeps, but am decided that something has gone wrong with motor or esc. I'm going to send back for testing and replacement. Just got to be patient to get it back and get flying... some Sim practice in the meantime.
It's better that it went wrong on bench rather than in the air.

[wanderer56]

The fact that you did hover it suggests that one of your settings got changed somehow? You can try resetting the AR7200 or create a new model and start from stratch. Be patient with the esc programming. You'll have it mastered in no time.

If you had an extra motor and esc or a friend that does, you could test them by swapping them out.

That said, it would be the first time an electronic componant went bad or developed a bad solder joint.

[gtruk]

I have the Align BL-45X in my 450X. I had a very hard time programming mine as well until I read my manual for the 450 which mentions having to put the AR7200 into bind mode. Not sure if the 35 has the same settings as the 45 but did you set your throttle end points? I believe it was the first step required for mine.

[Russell Harding]

A stuttering and/or extremely weak motor sound a like only two of the three motor wires are functioning. Could be a short (something conductive fell in the motor), bad wires, or connectors. Could be a bad esc or motor.

[DoubleCH]

Sounds like perhaps you haven't set the throttle endpoints for the ESC correctly.

[venton]

But throttle did control the revs from zero to fast, but no power in motor. i could stop it with gentlest pressure. Could that really have been endpoints? oh well it's gone back for checks now. I'll update when I hear back.

[MarcoPolous]

I think I also have a situation with RCE-BL45X Brushless ESC....everything was good for couple of flights and when I changed a battery for a new one look what happened:

No surge (0 min 23 sec)

I am running Scorpion 2221-8 + RCE-BL45X Brushless ESC + 3GX on 450 size heli.....

Any idea what it may be ?

[utnes]

Did you find out anyting, has the same on my esc

[javaheadjames]

I have the Align 35 A ESC that came with the 450SE V2 kit. I replaced the kit motor when the shaft snapped randomly one flight long ago with the bigger Align BL430SP 3700KV motor. Everything else is stock Align with a 401 and Hitec HS-MG servos.

I have been experiencing surge like power fluctuations in flight, not huge, maybe up to +/- 20% change in power, enough to sound alarm bells in my ears.

At first I thought it was related to my radio control, the Airtronics RDS-8000 Tx and the 92824 Rx, but I quickly realized that was not losing radio-control.

It feels like it's almost cycling into a soft-power-down, battery-protect mode, but only intermittently, then it surges back to normal power. I am using the Align Motor and Align 35 Amp ESC, which has taken a few diggers and I have made repairs on, so its time is thru, I am replacing it with a new ESC and i will let you know. I hope to bench test the Align ESC and take a look under the scope. I suspect theres some electrical distortion happening.

The surge, or rather sag, that I experienced seemed to come on with slight changes in rotor-drag-torque, like at the onset of a coordinated left turn, where you kind of sink through the air anyway, right then and there the ESC would sag 20% for a second, and I'd think "MAYDAY!!!", but then a second later the power would come back on and we'd be twitching right back up to head-speed, and back aloft, and planning a landing approach!

I have used this ESC a lot, and it has seen a frontal collision that busted a capacitor. Remarkably, the Align 35 A ESC will work with only one capacitor, but it runs like a dog, not good, like a 20% handicap, and it runs really really hot if you try. So don't try. I repaired it with a new CAPACITOR and have been flying on that since 2011. My power sag problem only onset in 2014.

I think it is a mechanical connection problem somewhere in the ESC or inside one of its electrical components, possibly resulting from a mechanical bump or from "burning out" over use.

My ESC protrudes too far forward and is vulnerable to getting whacked or bent in rough handling. hopefully a new ESC and battery will get me ship shape. My heli needs a helmet.

PS
Is 6S unrealistic on a 450 SE V2 with an Align RCM-BL430SP 3700KV motor? Should I be more around 2000KV range to fly 6S? or not necessarily? I ask only 'cause I got an 2S-6S replacement ESC, and I would ultimately like to relocate the ESC more aft and locate twin batteries on the sides toward the aft, to shift the CG enough to mount a B.M.P. Cinema Camera in the nose. I'm not looking to flip 3D but I am chasing performance under load, flight-time, battery-reserve, reliability. Any one fly a 6S 450? KV's? Stretch'd?

[Russell Harding]

You will need a motor roughly half the KV to go 6S.