700x Tail Gears - Whats the deal here?

[Number]

Shimming the gears is a must. Pick up some 12x15x0.1mm shims next time.

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by hirobo

Are the red gear the strongest ??
I do not believe.
What is the solution??

As previous post, those gears dont appear to have been fully meshing and probably could have used a shim or two behind the shoulder on the front TT gear to push it forward slightly. You should adjust the gears until there is barely any detectable slop.

I get my shims here: http://os.3racing.hk/products.php?products_key=2690 They give you mixed packs with 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3mm thickness.

Any no, the manual says nothing about shims!

The other thing that will blow out those gears is having too high governor gain. If you are using the Castle ESC then gov gain should be set to low. The Align 130A seems fine on default gain settings.

[hirobo]

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

As previous post, those gears dont appear to have been fully meshing and probably could have used a shim or two behind the shoulder on the front TT gear to push it forward slightly. You should adjust the gears until there is barely any detectable slop.

I get my shims here: http://os.3racing.hk/products.php?products_key=2690 They give you mixed packs with 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3mm thickness.

Any no, the manual says nothing about shims!

The other thing that will blow out those gears is having too high governor gain. If you are using the Castle ESC then gov gain should be set to low. The Align 130A seems fine on default gain settings.

Thank you for your help.

[Atomic Skull]

Originally Posted by daboxe

I think you can also use a 21tooth from the nitro model. That's if the auto gear hangs around...

You have to modify the frame otherwise the gears are too close together.

[Atomic Skull]

Originally Posted by daboxe

I think you can also use a 21tooth from the nitro model. That's if the auto gear hangs around...

You have to modify the frame otherwise the gears are too close together. The auto gear will hang around because it has to for the nitro model (they both use the same auto gear)

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

It's the auto gear that's showing as discontinued. And no, you cant use the 21t spur gear off the nitro, at least not without slotting the holes for the tail mount.

Now that's weird because the Trex 700N uses the same 104t auto gear as the electric model.

[Atomic Skull]

Originally Posted by Grumpy_Old_Man

That's a very good point! I'm pretty sure that the Nitro cant use the new red gear set off the 700X anyway. The frame spacing between main shaft and tail box must be ever so slightly less on the nitro to accommodate the smaller 21t spur gear that it was designed for. Web sites are listing the new red gear set and 102t auto as a 700N spare, but the official Align data on the new gear set (as I'd expect) doesnt list it as compatible with the 700N

Dealers are always getting align parts mixed up. They've been listing the old 700E DFC mainshaft as a 700X part too and isn't because the upper hole on the 700x mainshaft is a clearance hole and not threaded. Some dealers also got the 700E FBL V2 arms mixed up with the older V1 arms. The "new design" FBL head from about two years ago uses plastic radius arms that are 2mm shorter and there is a chamfer on the corners of the aluminum arm now though that is only cosmetic.

Speaking of radius arms it's bullshite that Align does not sell the V2 radius arms (or the 700x ones for that matter) as a separate part and you are expected to buy a whole new arm set when the plastic link starts to get sloppy. They do still sell the older plastic arms though and you can just raise the swashplate by 2mm on models that don't use an elevator arm.

I think on the 700X you might be able to use TSA Infusion 700 radius arms though you might need to shim under the arm to get the FBL links exactly 90 degrees assuming the distance from center of the mainshaft is less (if it is more you can't use them). This would be contingent on the spacing at the end of the aluminum arm being the same on the end where the plastic radius arm goes though again if it was wider on the TSA arm you could shim it.

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by Atomic Skull

Now that's weird because the Trex 700N uses the same 104t auto gear as the electric model.

Hopefully it's just a mistake and they will start to show up in stock again soon. Right now though they seem to be like 'hens teeth' everywhere.

[msallua]

READY For testing the next weekend

I fly

IU1 2050rpm
IU2 2250rpm


Tail Blades . Rails 106mm

[tacomaster]

I haven't shimmed my tail gears. I also don't have an aggressive gov like the castle, or hard tail stops. I'm gonna try to stock up on a couple of tail gears. The old ratio is awesome and even holds good in the 1700's

[Thoemse]

Originally Posted by tacomaster

I haven't shimmed my tail gears. I also don't have an aggressive gov like the castle, or hard tail stops. I'm gonna try to stock up on a couple of tail gears. The old ratio is awesome and even holds good in the 1700's

The need for shimming is only there if you god a "bad tail" because of factory tolerances in my opinion. My tail has perfect gear mesh. I wouldn't know where to put a shim, it simply would not go together anymore.

I do however have a 450 tail that is so incredibly sloppy that it allready lead to a tail failure because of bad gear mesh. It needs shimming very badly.

[Dennis Everett]

post 6 says it all , " i dont think they will be discontinued " hes a Align rep and should know what hes talking about .

[nynextel88]

Haven't heard that they are. Waiting to get some more concrete information on this.

As of this post they are showing in stock at HeliDirect.

http://m.helidirect.com/item/33323037

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by nynextel88

Haven't heard that they are. Waiting to get some more concrete information on this.

As of this post they are showing in stock at HeliDirect.

http://m.helidirect.com/item/33323037

It's not the TT bevel gear set that it the current stock problem, it's the matching 104t auto gear. This is shown as 'out of stock' almost everywhere. Helidirect has it out of stock: http://m.helidirect.com/item/32323735

Align Trex store has it out of stock and says it's been replaced by the new 102t version: http://www.aligntrexstore.com/104T-M...XX_p_2294.html

[dchekas]

Originally Posted by Atomic Skull

Speaking of radius arms it's bullshite that Align does not sell the V2 radius arms (or the 700x ones for that matter) as a separate part and you are expected to buy a whole new arm set when the plastic link starts to get sloppy. They do still sell the older plastic arms though and you can just raise the swashplate by 2mm on models that don't use an elevator arm.

http://shop.align.com.tw/product_inf...oducts_id=6047

[nynextel88]

"Sorry. Late reply. 22T will still be produced. The new part number is h70g001bx. Same gear, I think it'll be red material. It's not listed yet."

That is the reply that was returned from Align Taiwan. I think it's safe to assume that if they are going to continue to manufacture the 22T gear, they will also still be making the 104T. I have a message out looking for clarification on that as well.

[Atomic Skull]

Originally Posted by Thoemse

The need for shimming is only there if you god a "bad tail" because of factory tolerances in my opinion.

It's not the tail box it's differences from batch to batch in the gears themselves. I've had umbrella gears where I could push the bearings on with my fingers and I've had ones where it was so oversized I had to use an arbor press (I pushed it on with a flat surface supporting the bearing then used a 12x16x1 shim supported by a big fender washer to support the center of the bearing as I pushed it on rest of the way with the press)

Align could solve this with CNC TT gears, mould oversized gear blanks and then turn them and hob the teeth in so the size is consistent. But for whatever reason they refuse to do this.

[Atomic Skull]

Originally Posted by dchekas

http://shop.align.com.tw/product_inf...oducts_id=6047

That must have been recently released, when I looked a month ago they weren't available. They still don't have the radius arms for the "V3" FL700 head though.

[Number]

"Align could solve this with CNC TT gears, mould oversized gear blanks and then turn them and hob the teeth in so the size is consistent. But for whatever reason they refuse to do this."


I would assume it has something to do with the fact that the many $400,000 plastic injection molds for molding the gears they already have, not to mention that they'd have to get another CNC machine (well, several of them) with the ability to churn out that many gears which would be very expensive. All in all a very expensive transition and they would not see much net gain in profits if any.

Also consider that for us, CNC Delrin gears costs 2-3X as much as mass produced injection molded ABS or POM gears. Look at Synergy tail gears or Compass 6HVU main gears. They are very nice, but very very expensive. (Not calling out any specific brands just giving examples)

Also, in all honesty, the demand for these CNC Delrin gears is not all that much. There are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Align helicopters out there and for 99.5% of them, regular molded gears are perfectly adequate.

[dchekas]

Originally Posted by Atomic Skull

That must have been recently released, when I looked a month ago they weren't available. They still don't have the radius arms for the "V3" FL700 head though.

I have brand new in package "V3" swash driver arms, as well as brand new in package plastic radius arms from the original FBL days.

I cannot see a physical difference between the two other than the "V3" plastic links have a P/N embossed in them, while the "V1"s do not.

I cannot see a reason why one couldn't be used on either rotor head. If there is any difference in height, its inconsequential. I used the "V1" swash driver arms on my "V3" head setup on my 700N without any issue.

[Smoggie]

Originally Posted by Number

Also consider that for us, CNC Delrin gears costs 2-3X as much as mass produced injection molded ABS or POM gears.

Delrin is POM (aka 'Acetal'). 'Delrin' is just Duponts trade name for their range of POM materials. Of course Dupont claim their POM is better than anyone else's POM, but I guess they would do wouldn't they?

Also CNC machining does not add any strength to the material. The strength of POM is the strength of POM and whether you CNC machine it to shape or you injection mould it it irrelevant to it's strength. You would probably get very slightly better tolerances with machining but that would make them stronger.