How do you do tic toc's?

[Epoweredrc]

I have tryed over and over and the heli just falls out of the air. i would have posted in the main heli fourm but thought i would post here since am trying it with a B400.

whats the trick? I can turn it over on its back then flip all way back over forward but to go for the tic toc ( that 45 degree to 45 degree angle ) as a real tic toc. how do you get it not to fall out of the sky?

Thanks for any advice,info.

[sepoinak]

Head speed... good carbon blades... good collective management...it really depends on a lot of things....

[fast400]

in idleup you use full + throttle and right stick full back, then full - throttle and full forward right stick.

[sethf8403]

do you crash every time you fall from the sky or can you recover?

[75scoutII]

The trick is stick timing, and offset. You have to lead with elevator, and then add pos collective, and then bleed off collective as the heli is aproaching vertical and then continue adding neg collective, then reverse the elevator, and start reversing the collective from neg to positive. The hardest part is giving it enough elevator to make it look like its pivoting on the tail rotor or a few feet past the end of the boom. If you dont have enough elevator, it'll just look like a big arc.

[Jasmine2501]

Yup it's all about the timing. The Blade 400 isn't great at Tick-tocks with the stock motor, but with really good collective management, it can be done. You can't just slam the sticks both ways - most of the time, you won't be at full pitch in either direction. If you're holding full pitch for longer than it takes for the heli to stop and reverse direction, then you're doing it wrong. The Blade 400 will bog down and you'll fall.

Can you do it on the simulator? If you can, try doing it with an under-powered heli.

[jteee]

If you have a Phoenix or Real Flight sim, they have tutorials on most of the 3d moves.

[T/CHunter2009]

If you master it on the Sim with the Sim Blade 400 it is almost the same but the real deal has more bog no matter what ! I think Carbon Fiber blades and a hotter motor would help. But you better have a good ESC to handle the amp draw as well. I can do a few but there not real pretty at times. It's all in the timing and with the under powered motor makes it a challenge for sure. But it can be done. I messed with the Pitch settings and throttle settings and you can make things work a it better by making some radio adjustments to handle this 3D stunt . Like Jasmine said it's all in management of your collective pitch. So adjust that to start with , I backed mine down some and things started looking better for that maneuver and some of the bog wasn't as noticeable. There really is no need to have plus and minus 10 degrees of pitch for this stunt anyway. It will only cause more motor bog if your timing isn't spot on. Play with the Pitch and of coarse you need to be in Idle up with your mid stick throttle setting somewhere around 80% or higher . That's My 2 cents of worthless knowledge ; I'm no pro by any means. But I can still pull a few tick tacks off. Good luck ; Sim time helps thats for sure. Get your bird up 2 mistakes high and you'll have plenty of time to get out of trouble just in case you do.

[mr2mkii]

Scout nailed the key points.

All I can add is this: don't go and try and do narrow & fast tick-tocs. You need to develope that timing & collective control first. Instead try and do slow and wide arcs, stopping the motion at each 45° angle, then transversing to the other direction. This is going to teach you the collective control necessary to not fall out of the sky. With collective under control, you concentrate on the elevator(pitch) timing.

As scout says, the elevator & collective are not exaclty opposite, but rather offset. I like to think of it in this fashion Push - Pitch - Arrest - Push - Pitch - Arrest...etc.. When your arresting the motion, your not making pitch changes. After you transverse ( moving in the opposite dir), that's when you give the elevator command to begin the arc...

Common problems in falling out of the sky is not giving enough thrust vector to complete teh arc to the other side. This includesthe angle of the thrust mind you, not just the amount. Don't be in a hurry to transverse...go slow.

Once you can do bigger arcs...start tightening it up...you'll find the timing is learned and the motions proper.

Now I will say the phoenix SIM will let me do these on the blade all day...but a stock one doesn't seem to handle the tight ones. I can do the bigger arcs, but not tight ones.

[Epoweredrc]

Originally Posted by sethf8403

do you crash every time you fall from the sky or can you recover?

I recover. it just falls stright down. but I do it high so not hit ground, I dont like doing repairs. dont have money for them...


I do not own a good similator cause dont have a $500.00 PC to run one. I have cheap sims and you cant do them on the sims I have at all. it does look like a HUGE arc on my sims. I do it in real life better then sim


Thanks for your posts and I think I just give to much pitch both ways... someone said B400 not best heli for doing them so maybe thats it.