Crashed Gasser

[CrashandBurn]

I bought a crashed gasser without a tail and I don't know if it was a EB or not. Is there a difference between the two birds other than the longer tail boom?

[2SX1]

Look at the front radio tray. On the standard gasser, the radio tray sticks out about 4 inches beyond the front canopy posts.
The EB gasser has a much longer radio tray so weight can be attached further forward to compensate for the tail-heavy EB.
The gear ratio might be be better suited for one or the other, too.
I'm sure when you rebuild it, you can rebuild it as either the standard or EB.

[Intrepid175]

The radio tray is one way to tell. The gear ratio is a more certain way IMO. The EB will have a 12 tooth pinion gear. The standard Gasser will have a 14 tooth pinion.

[CrashandBurn]

Thanks guys, Looks like it is a standard gasser. I picked up a boom that is 33 inches, a little longer than the boom on my nitro Intrepid. Is this the length of the EB? Should I cut it down or just install it? If I do install it, are there other changes that must be done such as a longer servo tray and different pinion gear?

Here is a question for a real sleuth. The tail was broken off the body but the frame looks fine. The spindle was bent, but the damage I have never seen before on a heli, is that the bell housing blew apart and the clutch is broken in half. What could cause that?

[Dimitris76]

An engine at WOT overspeeding and overheating the clutch???

[Intrepid175]

Originally Posted by CrashandBurn

Thanks guys, Looks like it is a standard gasser. I picked up a boom that is 33 inches, a little longer than the boom on my nitro Intrepid. Is this the length of the EB? Should I cut it down or just install it? If I do install it, are there other changes that must be done such as a longer servo tray and different pinion gear?

Here is a question for a real sleuth. The tail was broken off the body but the frame looks fine. The spindle was bent, but the damage I have never seen before on a heli, is that the bell housing blew apart and the clutch is broken in half. What could cause that?

33 inches is probably the standard tail boom. Chris can confirm that, I'm sure he'll chime in on this one at some point. I've got an EB and my tail boom is 37 inches. I'm assuming you decided it's a standard gasser by the 14 tooth pinion? If that's the case, then run 710 blades and keep the rotor speed between 1650 (minimum) and 1950 (max) and you'll be good to go as far as that part of it is concerned. You'll need to be certain your tail drive (torque tube) is the correct length. As for the clutch bell housing? I've never seen one blow apart before. I have had a clutch fail in the manner you mention but it wasn't on a Bergen and was replace under warranty by the manufacturer. Dimitris mentions maybe a wide open throttle situation and that's a possibility. I'm wondering if the opposite might be true. One of the reasons Chris recommends 1650 as a minimum hover speed on a standard gasser is to ensure the clutch is fully engaged in flight. If the previous owner was flying the rotor head too slow, that could cause clutch slippage problems with the associated heat build up and may well have lead to that kind of failure. Beyond that, it sounds like the previous owner may have really plowed it. Who knows?

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[CrashandBurn]

Thanks for your input. I'm gonna ask a few more nube questions because I haven't had a gasser since the 80's (kalt baron). I am assuming I have the 23 engine, there might be markings on it but I can't see them. I have not taken the bird apart yet, I will wait until I have all the parts because I have found that pieces walk away when they aren't connected.

There is a black wire hanging off the engine, does this connect to somewhere as a ground?

I do have a tach to check the head speed. I came with a top of the line Futaba radio(my first). It is a FP-T8SGH-P, it set me back $500 when it was new. I saw one sell on ebay for ten bucks recently LOL.

I've checked the head speed at just below hover while the bird was still on the ground, but how do you check it off the ground? I just can't imagine getting close to a bird in the air, I have too much respect(fear) of the damage they can do so fast.

[2SX1]

You're going to want a helicopter tachometer. I think you've already figured out why your plane tach is neither safe nor practical for helicopter use.
Since you can't hold the tach while you fly, you'll need a friend to operate the tach for you. Ideally, you find a friend that owns a tach, so then that way you don't have to buy one.

If you can't find someone local, find yourself an OPTICAL heli tach (or find a local who has one).
Some good ones include the Miniature Aircraft tach or the Model Avionics Sky Tach. New, they're around $80. You might find a used one for $40-$50.
Don't waste your time with any of those iPhone "heli tach" apps.

[CrashandBurn]

Thanks for the info. I did a search and now know what a real heli tach is. I found a Turnigy Heli-Tach for under $35 brand new. I have always just gone by ear and feel to get the sweet spot head speed but for this bird I will do it properly.

[Cletus]

I've seen that Hobby King "yellow" tach and it's decent. Being "hard-core" in the hobby I've got the "Check=Master II" which includes an optical tach, servo tester, contact thermometer, along with a very good heli sky tach. Another plus is the internal NiMh rechargeable battery pack so there's no battery changing every two months like the others.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ne-Heli-Tester

[Intrepid175]

CrashandBurn, the wire on the back of the engine is a ground wire. On airplanes, it's attached to ground through a switch to kill the ignition. On helicopters, it's generally ignored (killing the engine is done through closing off the carb) but can also be used with a governor, usually a Futaba GV-1 through a device called a Stator Gator that converts the ignition signal from the wire to something the GV-1 can use as a speed sensor.

[lperagallo]

I think this is the best tach on the market.

http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=113725

It is easy to use, see and its' battery lasts a long time.

Lou

[Intrepid175]

+1 Lou!

[cbergen]

You guys are great, I don't even know why I hang out here anymore!!

33" is the standard length for the tail boom, but it MAY have been 31 1/4 in the past. With a longer boom you'll also need the TT to be longer and the tail pushrod. But if all of this needs replacing anyway, just cut to fit.

Call me old school, I like the MA tach from Heliproz. Saw them on sale recently for $89..but currently out of stock..

Just a suggestion, but it may be beneficial to do a complete teardown now, then you can order all the parts you need at one time, instead of finding later that you need this thing, then another thing, etc, etc.

[Kustom]

You know you call to much when Mary Ann knows your voice right off the batt.

[Intrepid175]

Originally Posted by Kustom

You know you call to much when Mary Ann knows your voice right off the batt.

LOL

Yeah, there are a lot of us that fall under that category!

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[lperagallo]

Originally Posted by Kustom

You know you call to much when Mary Ann knows your voice right off the batt.

What's worse is when she tells you your credit card number from memory

Lou

[cbergen]

HA!! That's what I told Kevin today!! LOL.

[2SX1]

that's funny. I called in January some time and the first thing Mary Ann asked, "Who is this? I don't know the sound of your voice yet."

[CrashandBurn]

I'm rebuilding the bird(aka performing a autopsy) and Chris was right, I should have taken it apart and then ordered parts. I have a nitro Bergen that I bought used but talked to the guy that I bought it from and was confident in its construction. I have flown it for four years with no problems. To tell you the truth, The birds look so complicated that I didn't want to disassemble it till I had to. Now that I am taking my gasser apart, it seems like logical simplicity. One things I have noticed that I have never seen before is that the clutch isn't bolted to the engine, it is just held on to the engine by the Delrin bushings and held down by the 6mm collar(which is missing). Is this correct?

I have to admit that not only am I running on a shoestring budget, but the shoe string is tied together with a knot. I bought a tail off of a different forum. Now I know I bought a obsolete tail that doesn't have parts support. Oh well. At least I have the 23 engine and I fly like a old man. I also bought a clutch bell that has 13 teeth, will this work, what's it for? Luckily when I bought this crashed bird I also bought a 14 tooth bell so I think that will work.

On a side note, I called Bergen to order the parts and was taken aback to have Chris answer the phone. It was like being a groupie and talking to a rock star. It was akin to talking to Dieter Schluter.


Here is a after thought, now that I have removed the carb and muffler, do the gaskets need to be replaced? Should the muffler just be epoxied back on?