HobbyWing Platinum 100 V3 / Goblin 500

[alexmit]

Originally Posted by STAZZ

Are we all here after the best performance for our $ or am I missing something?

BTW, I have read on the other forum of several cases of unexpected cut-offs midflight. One with serious damage while exiting big nice loop. And the guy who has reported have mentioned that he was playing with PWM values on the bench some flights before the crash. After that, when he was checking the VBar log there was also a "voltage drop below 3.3v" and some "channels missing" messages.

Failures are are all subject to proper configuration. Overgearing, using the internal BEC with high current draw servos, Incorrect setups and many other factors come into play.
Unfortunately you will see lots of reports from people that may be new to the hobby and do not fully understand how to properly set up the ESC or helicopter in general. This is because the price is lower level and you tend to see many people new to the hobby buying budget electronics. Not to say there aren't legitimate ESC failures.

[Rotorious]

Originally Posted by trexpro

Is it save to use the internal bec of this speedcontroller?

Specs on the internal BEC are 10A continuous, 25A burst. Seems plenty for my setup, but everybody's is different, so you should test it. I say get one, and test the BEC on the bench by rapidly moving collective and rudder back and forth for a couple minutes. If you get a brown out, well that answers your question. If it doesn't work out, you can return it, or sell it on the forum.

[jbobb1]

Originally Posted by trexpro

I tend more and more to this esc.

If I'm going to try this new HW platinum 100 V3. I will use the gov from the Vbar and use the internal bec @ 8V of the HW 100!
Is it save to use the internal bec of this speedcontroller?

next question, can someone explain how to make the Vbar gov work in combo with the HW?

As mentioned, you'll want to do a bench test for brown outs, especially running at a higher voltage. I do my bench testing ( with the Vbar) with the "pitch pump" in the software set to a temporary value of 90 - 100. This really has the servos flying! Gives the bec a workout!

As far as the Vbar governor goes, do you have the mini or full sized?

[trexpro]

Originally Posted by jbobb1

As mentioned, you'll want to do a bench test for brown outs, especially running at a higher voltage. I do my bench testing ( with the Vbar) with the "pitch pump" in the software set to a temporary value of 90 - 100. This really has the servos flying! Gives the bec a workout!

As far as the Vbar governor goes, do you have the mini or full sized?

I have the mini vbar pro

[alexmit]

Originally Posted by iammenotu

Specs on the internal BEC are 10A continuous, 25A burst. Seems plenty for my setup, but everybody's is different, so you should test it. I say get one, and test the BEC on the bench by rapidly moving collective and rudder back and forth for a couple minutes. If you get a brown out, well that answers your question. If it doesn't work out, you can return it, or sell it on the forum.

vBar also shows brownouts in the logs... Risky, but it does show it. If you run spektrum, the satellites will also flash after a brownout. Also risky. Bench testing is certainly a good idea, but doesn't always reflect real stress or Amp peaks during flight.

[jbobb1]

The HW has a rpm output lead that plugs directly into the "RX A" slot on the Vbar. It's a single orange lead and it will be up when plugged in.
The HW flight mode should be set to "Airplane/Fixed wing" so the Vbar can control the softstart.

[trexpro]

Originally Posted by jbobb1

The HW has a rpm output lead that plugs directly into the "RX A" slot on the Vbar. It's a single orange lead and it will be up when plugged in.
The HW flight mode should be set to "Airplane/Fixed wing" so the Vbar can control the softstart.

thanks for your info, I appreciate it.

Danny

[Rotorious]

Originally Posted by alexmit

vBar also shows brownouts in the logs... Risky, but it does show it. If you run spektrum, the satellites will also flash after a brownout. Also risky. Bench testing is certainly a good idea, but doesn't always reflect real stress or Amp peaks during flight.

DSM2 sats flash after a brown out or signal loss. DSMX sats do not. I found this out the hard way.

True. The blades do not exert as much resistance on the servos when bench testing in the manner I suggested. Slightly off topic, but I wonder if it would be more representative to do the bench test with the blades folded. Thoughts?

[Rotorious]

You can also add a Scorpion BUG, or Optipower Ultraguard. Cheap insurrance in case of a brown out, and a much safer way to test whether your BEC is up to the task.

I installed a Scorpion BUG on my G500, since I already had it, but I don't think it's necessary in my case. I'm still using it anyway. No reason not to.

[Raz0rSh4rp]

To create a realistic load on the BEC set the pitch pump or equivalent setting to 100 or maximum and move the collective between its full extents repeatedly for 30-40 seconds. This drives the servos to move and reverse as quickly as possible. As the servos hit the end of their throw and reverse direction you will see transient loads that create larger amp draws than what you would expect to see in practical use, even hard 3D.

More reading here: http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1327

[STAZZ]

You can also make a pitch curve like 100-0-100-0-100 in your transmitter. The effect will be the same and no need to connect to computer.

[STAZZ]

Originally Posted by iammenotu

You can also add a Scorpion BUG, or Optipower Ultraguard. Cheap insurrance in case of a brown out, and a much safer way to test whether your BEC is up to the task.

I don't get this... How will you know if your BEC is up to the task if BUG or Ultraguard connected? You will see, that there is no brownouts, but how do you know what was behind it? Your BEC or your BUG?

[Rotorious]

Originally Posted by STAZZ

I don't get this... How will you know if your BEC is up to the task if BUG or Ultraguard connected? You will see, that there is no brownouts, but how do you know what was behind it? Your BEC or your BUG?

Well, the BUG wouldn't be behind it. It sits there and does literally nothing unless the BEC voltage drops below a certain threshold. For the Scorpion BUG that threshold is 5V, but I'm not sure what it is for the Ultraguard. If it dips below that threshold at any point during the flight, the light on the BUG will start blinking, and keep blinking until you turn it off. So, if you get in the habit of checking your BUG after each flight, and ever notice that light blinking, it is a good indicator that you have an insufficient BEC or some other bottle neck in your power supply (too small wires/connectors, etc.). If you go for, lets say 30 flights, and your BUG light never blinked, then you can be pretty confident your BEC is sufficient.

The BUG doesn't tell you what was behind the brown out. It just tell you that you had one, which is a better indicator than the heli crashing, in my opinion.

Now, if you had a crash that seemed like a brown out (power shuts down, no control), but you had a BUG installed, chances are it was a signal loss rather than a brown out.

[trexpro]

Optipower ultra guard:

The device is plugged into a free port on your RX or FBL system and when you power up the device waits, monitors the system set voltage, then arms at that voltage less 0.5V. The device is then armed and monitoring the system voltage and the state of the buffer pack.
If the buffer pack needs topping up it will do that and balance it from the main packs or RX pack and stop when it gets to a nominal 8.1V. The device samples the system voltage every 2mS and if the system voltage drops below the armed set voltage then the buffer pack steps in if the system voltage recovers it drops out, this is seamless. The device when working can and does indicate locally that its operational and if it is charging or not but this is not able to be seen at distance.
A separate external high intensity LED can be fitted that shows you are on the buffer pack, this is an option and these can be cascaded if required. The device works across 4.6V to 8V.

[trexpro]

Hi Guys,

I did today a thorough 1 minute BEC stress test with my Talon 90 and the optipower ultra guard.
Servo's on board are the swash BK DS-5001HV and tail BK DS-7005HV, mini Vbar pro. The bec voltage is set to 8V.
Room temperature 20 Celsius

Test 1: failed Vbar log gave six times a low voltage of 2.5V
Pitch curve -100 /+100
Pitch pump setting at 100 in the Vbar
Without Ultra guard
Servo temp: about 40/45 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

Test 2: passed Vbar log healthy (UG stept in)
Pitch curve -100 /+100
Pitch pump setting at 100 in the Vbar
With Ultra guard enabled
Servo temp: about 40/45 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

Test 3: passed Vbar log healthy
Pitch curve -100 /+100
No pitch pump setting in the Vbar (set at 0)
Without Ultra guard
Servo temp: about 30 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

Test 4: passed Vbar log healthy
No pitch pump setting in the Vbar (set at 0)
With Ultra guard enabled
Servo temp: about 30 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

The Vbar method shows a real amperage consumption of the servo's, they got really hot after a minute stress workout with the pitch pump setting at 100

So without the pitch pump setting at 100 in the Vbar and only using the pitch curve linear setting you don't get a realistic picture!

Conclusion of this test: Using the Talon 90 only is not up for the job and therfore not save to use. But the Talon 90 in combo with the Optipower ultra guard is save, the UG does its job perfectly.
The UG doesn't step fully in like it would if the BEC is failed completely (so no warning led's flashing) but only backups the voltage drops of the BEC. So the Optipower ultra guard is not only a life saver when the BEC fails completely but also a voltage drop saver for the BEC

If the BEC fails completely than the warning led's will be flashing, then it's time to get your heli back on the ground.

[STAZZ]

Thanks for the testing trexpro, it was very useful info!

[Aryemis]

Originally Posted by trexpro

Hi Guys,

I did today a thorough 1 minute BEC stress test with my Talon 90 and the optipower ultra guard.
Servo's on board are the swash BK DS-5001HV and tail BK DS-7005HV, mini Vbar pro. The bec voltage is set to 8V.
Room temperature 20 Celsius

Test 1: failed Vbar log gave six times a low voltage of 2.5V
Pitch curve -100 /+100
Pitch pump setting at 100 in the Vbar
Without Ultra guard
Servo temp: about 40/45 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

Test 2: passed Vbar log healthy (UG stept in)
Pitch curve -100 /+100
Pitch pump setting at 100 in the Vbar
With Ultra guard enabled
Servo temp: about 40/45 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

Test 3: passed Vbar log healthy
Pitch curve -100 /+100
No pitch pump setting in the Vbar (set at 0)
Without Ultra guard
Servo temp: about 30 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

Test 4: passed Vbar log healthy
No pitch pump setting in the Vbar (set at 0)
With Ultra guard enabled
Servo temp: about 30 Celsius
ESC temp: about 24 Celsius

The Vbar method shows a real amperage consumption of the servo's, they got really hot after a minute stress workout with the pitch pump setting at 100

So without the pitch pump setting at 100 in the Vbar and only using the pitch curve linear setting you don't get a realistic picture!

Conclusion of this test: Using the Talon 90 only is not up for the job and therfore not save to use. But the Talon 90 in combo with the Optipower ultra guard is save, the UG does its job perfectly.
The UG doesn't step fully in like it would if the BEC is failed completely (so no warning led's flashing) but only backups the voltage drops of the BEC. So the Optipower ultra guard is not only a life saver when the BEC fails completely but also a voltage drop saver for the BEC

If the BEC fails completely than the warning led's will be flashing, then it's time to get your heli back on the ground.

Try running your BEC on 6V, you probably won't get any brownouts.

Originally Posted by STAZZ

I know how these devices work, but why should one carry an extra weight or pay extra money if BEC does its job right? As an insurance?

The main point of the UG is insurance in case the BEC fails.
I run RX lipo packs so no point in using an UG, not to mention it would be triggered by the drops in voltage of the RX pack.
I prefer to run RX packs on big machines, at least if it fails, there is no risk of it passing 50V into my electronics.

[trexpro]

Originally Posted by Aryemis

Try running your BEC on 6V, you probably won't get any brownouts.



The main point of the UG is insurance in case the BEC fails.
I run RX lipo packs so no point in using an UG, not to mention it would be triggered by the drops in voltage of the RX pack.
I prefer to run RX packs on big machines, at least if it fails, there is no risk of it passing 50V into my electronics.

I will try the bec at 6v. Yes a rx pack is a save way to fly indeed but the Goblin 500 is so small inside, it's hard to fit a decent rx pack that last for about 5 to 6 flight.
I run a rx pack and a external bec on all my heli's above 500.
the UG lipo pack is very small and is especially designed for a short power failure.

[Aryemis]

Originally Posted by trexpro

I will try the bec at 6v. Yes a rx pack is a save way to fly indeed but the Goblin 500 is so small inside, it's hard to fit a decent rx pack that last for about 5 to 6 flight.
I run a rx pack and a external bec on all my heli's above 500.
the UG lipo pack is very small and is especially designed for a short power failure.

I run a 2S 1300 in my 12S G570, under the plastic lipo tray support, between the skids.
Plenty of space for bigger too.
Two 5 minute 3D flights get it down to 75%, so you could get 5-6 flights out of it.
I'm running efficient MKS brushless servos though, you may get less flights with coreless servos.

[trexpro]

Hi Guys,

Did the same BEC stress test with the Talon 90 but now with the BEC set to 6 volt. (Vbar pitch pump test)

All of the 4 same stress test I did previously now passed. All the Vbar logs show good health, with or without pitch pump settings at 100.
The temp of the servo's remained almost room temperature.
The ESC temp remained cold.

Also my telemetry readings where much more stable, the voltage drops average was 0.3 volt. The Optipower ultra guard had to do nothing.

It was interesting to test this BEC Aryemis!!!