Logo XXtreme 480 picture and video shortage?!? ***PICTURES ADDED***

[prototype3a]

That's because it is an 8s motor. Running the 4015-1050 on 6s is just silly. There are lighter motors with the same kv that produce the same or more power.

[matt blaisdell]

WOW its very Nice. powerful little guy.

[prototype3a]

On the mod0.7 gearing you could run the 4015-1450 and get the rated 1770w.

IMHO, the best motor for this heli and hard flying is the 3026-1400 with mod0.7 gears. It is almost 50g lighter than the 4015 and maxes out at 1680w on 6s.

[Varelco]

Originally Posted by prototype3a

That's because it is an 8s motor. Running the 4015-1050 on 6s is just silly. There are lighter motors with the same kv that produce the same or more power.

Yeah that's what I'm getting at it's an 8S motor but Mikado describe it as only 6S. Gives a false impression that it can deliver 1900w.

[el guapo]

Originally Posted by prototype3a

IMHO, the best motor for this heli and hard flying is the 3026-1400 with mod0.7 gears. It is almost 50g lighter than the 4015 and maxes out at 1680w on 6s.

personally I've had much better luck with the 40mm scorpions. seemed like I was swapping bearing on my 3026 a lot. I may have been over heating the little guy... but I prefer the big bearings on the 40mm motors.

I'm not saying I disagree with your recommendation for this size heli... but I'd choose the 4015. while its not ideal to add 50g. its not like its dead weight.

[Vinger]

3226 will be better than the 3026. Got a rewound one, done by myself that peaks over 2.5KW and it does not eat bearings like the older 3026 did.

[dahld]

A page back or so a question was asked if the 480 canopy would fit the 400. No...the 480 has a much taller frame, and the rear canopy grommets on the 480's canopy sit higher than any part of the 400's molded frame.

(-: Dave

[Raptorapture]

Hi Dave, any thoughts on the 4020-1100 running on this heli?

Thanks, Geoff.

[dahld]

In another thread some questions have come-up about what will fit motor size-wise under the canopy. Kyle should be home from the OHB by Tuesday, and I will take some measurements and post them.

Here's a long answer to a simple question. As for the power issue of various motors...As you can see (and probably know) from the postings above, motor performance just based on published watt ratings doesn't always tell the whole picture.

Kyle has prototyped several power systems for Mikado over the years, and one thing we've learned along the way is that just because a motor on paper looks to be a great candidate for a heli, the real world often says otherwise. If a system gets rejected, it's usually because there's some combination of kv and gearing, cell count, motor size / construction...whatever, that makes it run too hot, flights get too short, or the motor is just too large and heavy for the application.

Let's face it. If we could always get awesome power from the largest motors that would physically fit in a particular heli (and the weight didn't matter), and they always ran cool, didn't overly tax the other parts of the system or heli, and gave acceptably long flights, then there would never be a debate about the issue. But that's not the way it is. EVERYTHING is a compromise.

So about the 4020-1100? If the mounting spacing is the same, and being only about 5mm taller than the 4015, it should physically work in the 480. I'm guessing the power on the 4020 on 6S is probably pretty close to the power of the 4015 on 6S...but the 4020 is heavier. Run a smaller battery with the 4020 and it's a push. The real question is, how much powered do YOU need for how you'll fly the heli?

Note the heli Kyle flew in the video running a 4015-1070 on 6S is about as heavy as one can get. He was flying some heavy (for the heli) 4000mah packs, with weight on the tail to balance. It's been discussed that the 4015 on 6S is pushing only about 1400 watts. But the heli sure doesn't fly like it's heavy and under powered.

So in the end, it's really hard for me to make a recommendation that I know guys might use to spend their hard earned money, if we've never actually tried it.

Sorry for the long-winded "I'm not sure" answer.

(-: Dave

[Dennis Everett]

Dave , thanks for so much good info ! Some of the other heli guys need to hire you to get info out , cough(axxxx) ,
My question if you know , when you ground a tail belt driven heli , does the tailcase/boom/motor all need grounding , or would it be better to run a wire from the tail case directly to the motor ? If they are just using the boom as wire , the chance of loosing ground is increased , thanks again ... Dennis

[Raptorapture]

Thanks Dave. I was curious about the specs and wondered if my motor, 4020-1100, would be underpowered given specs and sounds like not so given that the 4015 is only hitting 1400 watts. Having said that your point about weight is well taken especially given the 4020 is 100 grams or 50% heavier. I was just seeing if I could use my 500 parts in the 480 instead of repairing it.

Cheers, Geoff.

Originally Posted by dahld

In another thread some questions have come-up about what will fit motor size-wise under the canopy. Kyle should be home from the OHB by Tuesday, and I will take some measurements and post them.

Here's a long answer to a simple question. As for the power issue of various motors...As you can see (and probably know) from the postings above, motor performance just based on published watt ratings doesn't always tell the whole picture.

Kyle has prototyped several power systems for Mikado over the years, and one thing we've learned along the way is that just because a motor on paper looks to be a great candidate for a heli, the real world often says otherwise. If a system gets rejected, it's usually because there's some combination of kv and gearing, cell count, motor size / construction...whatever, that makes it run too hot, flights get too short, or the motor is just too large and heavy for the application.

Let's face it. If we could always get awesome power from the largest motors that would physically fit in a particular heli (and the weight didn't matter), and they always ran cool, didn't overly tax the other parts of the system or heli, and gave acceptably long flights, then there would never be a debate about the issue. But that's not the way it is. EVERYTHING is a compromise.

So about the 4020-1100? If the mounting spacing is the same, and being only about 5mm taller than the 4015, it should physically work in the 480. I'm guessing the power on the 4020 on 6S is probably pretty close to the power of the 4015 on 6S...but the 4020 is heavier. Run a smaller battery with the 4020 and it's a push. The real question is, how much powered do YOU need for how you'll fly the heli?

Note the heli Kyle flew in the video running a 4015-1070 on 6S is about as heavy as one can get. He was flying some heavy (for the heli) 4000mah packs, with weight on the tail to balance. It's been discussed that the 4015 on 6S is pushing only about 1400 watts. But the heli sure doesn't fly like it's heavy and under powered.

So in the end, it's really hard for me to make a recommendation that I know guys might use to spend their hard earned money, if we've never actually tried it.

Sorry for the long-winded "I'm not sure" answer.

(-: Dave

[Raptorapture]

Hi Dennis,

Since nobody has answered so far I will give it a shot. First let me say that I'm not an EE.

The point of linking motor, boom and tail all up is twofold. Firstly, it is the easiest way to link the tail all the way to the motor. Imagine trying to run an extra wire. Would look pretty ugly on the boom in addition to being more vulnerable than the current method of electrical connectivity. It would be subject to failure through vibrations as well as other inflight stress. The second reason is the need to make all possible points of conductivity on the heli at the same potential and have that be connected to and at the ground used for the electronics. That way any charge that builds up, once it discharges through any conduction point, it goes directly to ground in order not to go through the electronics which would potentially cause a reset or failure to the electrical device. By having all parts along the possible conductivity path be made connected to ground, this provides maximum reduction of possible electrostatic discharge going through the electronics, which could happen from multiple points along the tail belt path.

Edit: it isn't so much that everything is connected to ground but more that all possible points of charge build up are connected in order to dissipate charge as soon as possible and not have that go through the electronics.

Cheers, Geoff.

Originally Posted by Dennis Everett

Dave , thanks for so much good info ! Some of the other heli guys need to hire you to get info out , cough(axxxx) ,
My question if you know , when you ground a tail belt driven heli , does the tailcase/boom/motor all need grounding , or would it be better to run a wire from the tail case directly to the motor ? If they are just using the boom as wire , the chance of loosing ground is increased , thanks again ... Dennis

[raptor50luvver]

Uk stockists have stock now

[mahbouni]

If you look at the parts list on the Mikado website all the new parts are marked as New and the others are shared with existing Logo models. What's interesting is the head block is marked as new, suggesting it's not the same as the one on the 500SX or 600SX. From the photo it looks shorter. For those wanting to stretch you might consider the taller 550SX rotor head, unless you're into the Goblin or Align DFC look.

http://shop.mikado-heli.de/LOGO-480-...&c=7439&p=7439

[Raptorapture]

I checked some of the part numbers. Block, grips are different while thrust bearings appeared the same to 550SX. Must be shrunk somewhat in size but still with some reuse, eg spindle diameter.

[mahbouni]

Main grips are the same as the old 400 and 500.

http://shop.mikado-heli.de/LOGO-480-...&c=7439&p=7439

I'm not sure what the 550SX has because I had 500 and upgraded it. I am using the bigger 600 grips but I didn't know the 550SX uses them.

[Raptorapture]

It looks like everything about the head is the same as 550SX except dampners, dampner offsets, grips and block.
Grips for new 500 and 550SX are the same, part no. 2314. Not sure difference against old 500 but definitely not 600 grips which are bigger than the 500/550SX.

Cheers.

[brw0513]

I've not owned a Logo yet but this one looks neat.

I see the manual is available now. But what does this really mean from Page 12:

5) Pinion and main gear should have minimal gear mesh.
The main gear is not 100 % round (due to the free wheel
unit). Therefore there will be a small area without any
gear mesh. This is normal. Do not use paper for setting
the gear mesh (this does not work with the herringbone
gear!). Now secure the M2.5 socket head cap screw with
thread lock.

Is this some language translation error or is there really a spot where the pinion and main gear do not make contact even when properly set up?

Can the rear cyclic servo and tail servo be removed without splitting the frames?

[DannyvG]

"without any gear mesh" will probably mean without any play between gears.

[Jockpants]

Originally Posted by brw0513

I've not owned a Logo yet but this one looks neat.

I see the manual is available now. But what does this really mean from Page 12:

5) Pinion and main gear should have minimal gear mesh.
The main gear is not 100 % round (due to the free wheel
unit). Therefore there will be a small area without any
gear mesh. This is normal. Do not use paper for setting
the gear mesh (this does not work with the herringbone
gear!). Now secure the M2.5 socket head cap screw with
thread lock.

Is this some language translation error or is there really a spot where the pinion and main gear do not make contact even when properly set up?

Gears and gear teeth are never cut 100% accurrately nor perfectly circular. It's just impossible to do it given reasonable engineering tolerances to make the manufacturing process economical. As a result, the teeth of two inter-locking gears will never 'mesh' properly: that is to say they will never fit together 100% together along the entire circumference of both gears. This is compensated for by 'setting the gear meshing'. In other words creating a very small gap between the teeth points and troughs so that they can't cause wear on each other. This indicated by a very small amount of sideways play between the teeth when the two gears are interacting with each other. The way to do this is to find the point on the largest gear where it's circumferance is closest to the smaller gear and set a meshing gap so that there is almost no sideways play between the teeth. This gap is usully set by putting a sheet of paper beween the gears and then pushing them together.

This method works well on straght cut and helical gears where the main gear assembly is bolted or otherwise fixed to the main shaft but with herringbone gears it's a bit different. Not only is it reasonably impossible to make gears perfectly round it's also impossible to make them perfectly flat. This isn't a problem with straight/helical teeth but the way herringbone teeth are shaped it means you need one of the gears to have some up and down movement as well so that the teeth don't become mis-aligned at the 'V' in the tooth patern. This is why the Mikado models and all other models that use herringbone gears have a main gear assembly that isn't bolted or otherwise connected to the main shaft. It allows the teeth on the main gear to naturally align itself to the pinion tooth pattern which needs to be locked to the motor shaft for obvious reasons.
This need to keep one of the gears free-floating though demands that the teeth are as close together as possible so that one gear keeps the other gear in place. It results in the teeth needing to be fully interlocked where the circumferances are at their closest point so that there is no chance of the teeth coming apart where the circumferances are at their furthest apart.
Hence not using paper to set the meshing gap with herringbone gears.