Any NOTAR RC Heli's out there?

[HAL9KPCM]

Originally Posted by ic-racer

NORTAR is a trademark name and the title of the thread. At low speeds the counter-rotation torque is produced by the boom. At hight speeds the counter-rotation torque is produced by the tail fins. The tail opening provides additional counter-rotation torque and yaw control for the pilot.

Other helicopters without tail rotors use other systems. I have a coaxial helicopter on my desk now. It has no tail rotor but it is not a NOTAR.

If you are unhappy that the acronym NOTAR has been trademarked, think how Gibson feel that double white bobbin humbucker pickups are trademarked by DiMarzio.

Even so the acronym they created and trademarked simply means no tail rotor, how they accomplished it is really irrelevant.

And right, the helicopter on your desk isn't a NOTAR, it's a coaxial.

If we're going to define NOTAR with how they accomplished it, then if somebody takes their model jet airplane with thrust vectoring, pastes the slot to the side of it, I guess it becomes a NOTAR.

[Mike680]

As said, NOTAR is proprietary. It's like Kleenex. Tons of people call any brand of tissue "Kleenex". Or, every copier is a "Xerox machine". So, to many, a helo with no tail rotor is called a "NOTAR" because, well, it doesn't have a tail rotor even though it's not the proper NOTAR design and/or brand of helo.

[Alex1972]

How do you like this coaxial helicopter?

RC coaxial helicopter 600 (3 min 32 sec)

[ARM_Coder]

Originally Posted by Mike680

It's also not very precise, which is why the Army never NOTAR. Not having a tail rotor is fantastic for CAL ops down in the trees or whatever, but it failed their test. I can't remember exactly what the test was, but it was something similar to hovering below a treeline, popping up and doing an immediate 90 degree pedal turn and firing a Hellfire or whatever then turning 90 degrees back to the original heading and dropping back down below the tree line. Apparently, the tail control was just too wishy washy and the task couldn't be completed in the allotted time.

NOTAR is also notoriously (no pun intended) sensitive to lateral winds, way more than conventional TRs.

Should you lose power in flight, you will have no tail control. No problem during glide in the auto as the tail will wheathervane, but on ground contact you won't have the pedals to make fine adjustments that you may need.

[Block137]

In case you are interested
Here is my attempt.

RC Synchropter: Tuning 3 (1 min 20 sec)

[Ironside]

Probably two of my favorites. Vario's 1/5th Scale MD 520N using a 90mm EDF for tail control. The sound is amazing

Vario Hughes MD 520 NOTAR (2 min 17 sec)

Vario Hughes MD 520 NOTAR (6 min 30 sec)

[helitack32f1]

Originally Posted by Mike680

As said, NOTAR is proprietary. It's like Kleenex. Tons of people call any brand of tissue "Kleenex". Or, every copier is a "Xerox machine". So, to many, a helo with no tail rotor is called a "NOTAR" because, well, it doesn't have a tail rotor even though it's not the proper NOTAR design and/or brand of helo.

Well, since people are being picky in this thread, I must disagree with what you have said here. Literally no one in the helicopter industry will refer to a helicopter as a NOTAR unless it is specifically an MD Helicopters NOTAR product, i.e, MD520N, MD600N and MD902 Explorer.

NOTAR does not refer to any helicopter without a tail rotor, it refers specifically to MD helicopter products.

[extrapilot]

Originally Posted by helitack32f1

Well, since people are being picky in this thread, I must disagree with what you have said here. Literally no one in the helicopter industry will refer to a helicopter as a NOTAR unless it is specifically an MD Helicopters NOTAR product, i.e, MD520N, MD600N and MD902 Explorer.

NOTAR does not refer to any helicopter without a tail rotor, it refers specifically to MD helicopter products.

Guys
There are many approaches to removing the tail rotor (tandem, coax, intermesh, tip thrusters, etc). NOTAR is a registered TM of McDonald Douglas, and its mode of action (Coanda + tip thruster + rudder control surfaces on the tail) are unique in combination. So yea, there is a reason no other setups are termed NOTAR- legally they cannot be with MD's approval. Hope that helps a bit- as it seems this should be a generic term, but it isnt.

[helitack32f1]

Originally Posted by extrapilot

Guys
There are many approaches to removing the tail rotor (tandem, coax, intermesh, tip thrusters, etc). NOTAR is a registered TM of McDonald Douglas, and its mode of action (Coanda + tip thruster + rudder control surfaces on the tail) are unique in combination. So yea, there is a reason no other setups are termed NOTAR- legally they cannot be with MD's approval. Hope that helps a bit- as it seems this should be a generic term, but it isnt.

Exactly. However, you have forced me to be even more picky.

First off, it is McDonnell Douglas, not "McDonald Douglas".

Second, McDonnell Douglas does not exist any more, it was purchased by Boeing and disappeared shortly thereafter.

Third, MD Helicopters is its own company, and is not McDonnel Douglas Helicopters as one could imply from the "MD" portion of their name.

And last, Boeing holds the trademark for NOTAR. Even though it was developed by McDonnell Douglas.

Here it is in their own words.
https://www.mdhelicopters.com/mdhi.html

[extrapilot]

And fifth. Do not use. Incomplete sentences.

The simple fact is that MD filed the trademark on NOTAR, and it is ONLY associated with their product. The fact that MD's Helicopter division has been bought/sold multiple times since then changes nothing (no one even changes the MD designation for fear of losing brand recognition).

[simplechamp]

Lot of cool information and videos in this thread. Until it devolved into nitpicking and grammar/spelling corrections.

OP please rename the thread to "Any RC helis that have no tail rotor but may or may not be an actual NOTAR trademarked by McDonnell Douglass who was at one point sold to Boeing and maybe CP coaxials but not totally sure" and we should be able to continue without offending anyone

[helitack32f1]

Originally Posted by extrapilot

And fifth. Do not use. Incomplete sentences.

The simple fact is that MD filed the trademark on NOTAR, and it is ONLY associated with their product. The fact that MD's Helicopter division has been bought/sold multiple times since then changes nothing (no one even changes the MD designation for fear of losing brand recognition).

To some people, accuracy of information is important. To others, grammar is far more important.


In an attempt to get back on topic, here is a video I took a little while ago. This is a video of the MD600N. Awesome helicopter to watch but apparently less than ideal to fly. I would love to see someone create a scale version of this this using a scale version of the six blade rotor.

It is interesting to me that it seems as though most of the RC NOTAR variations use a seperate motor to run the tail fan. It would be fun to see someone power the fan using drive from their turbine engine but I suspect it would involve a large amount of money.

MD 600N takeoff (0 min 50 sec)

[HAL9KPCM]

From what I can see on the Vario version, it uses a ducted fan driven by the turbine, not a separate motor.

[helitack32f1]

Interesting, I will have to look into that. Seems like whenever I look into v
Vario helis, I have a hard time finding info.

[HAL9KPCM]

I knew I saw a video about it somewhere. Here's a video of a guy doing the test run of the mechanics outside of the fuselage. You can clearly see the ducted fan blade. Found a couple of pictures too.

I suppose the upside of a separate motor for the ducted fan is that you maintain full tail control during an auto. Not sure how that works on a turbine. I suppose the fan could still be driven buy the tail rotor, but I have no idea what kind of parasitic draw that would create.

pahl gph70 mechanics first startups (3 min 45 sec)