I got a 5600kv motor

[DMala]

Thanks BillG, I may give it a try since things are not going well with the 5600kV motor. I got the new 12T pinion for 2mm shaft but the motor's shaft is an odd 2.2mm diameter. I do not have a drill bit of the exact dimension and I ended up swaging the pinion on it, but it came out all distorted. Maybe because of that or due to the motor there is so much vibration that the heli can not be flown. For 20$ I may give a try to the Hyperion motor at this point.

[BillG]

The Hyperion will have the same shaft dia. as the stock Gaui motor. A 15T pinion is not really a bad combo; as I said it just sounds fast, but is within the helis' structural capability and flies well. Else, why would Gaui have put it in the box?

Clean pinion bore and motor shaft with alcohol (you know this I'm sure).
GREEN Loctite, let cure overnight.

good luck!

[DMala]

Here is an update: I installed the Hyperion 5300 kV motor with a 15T pinion, entered the parameters in the CastleLink, and with Governor mode I got the following results for the Phoenix 25:

Headspeed (HS) 1 2967rpm too slow for proper governing
HS 2 3210 @ 70% throttle curve
HS 3 3520 @ 100% TC

So BillG, how do you get those headspeeds?

Anyhow I tried the motor for normal (not 3D flight), 100% flat TC, very smooth, no vibrations at all, and I noticed some power improvement, not too much, but enough to require some 10 units increase (from 65% or so to 75%) in the tail gain.
Then things got messy, I can not make quite sense of what happened.
I tried a flip and despite a rather good start height the heli lost a lot of altitude and flipped sideways. I had time to hit TH and crashed over short grass. The quality of the EP200 design showed up once more and besides some cracks in the canopy and broken carbon rod I use as canopy posts, the only main problem seemed a slightly bent boom, that I was able to straighten up by hand.
I also realized that on the aileron I had a 70% rate and 30% expo, which probably contributed to the lazy flip... rate is now 100% and expo only 10%.

So I blamed primarily the pilot but when I made a test flight after the repairs, there was nearly zero lift. I checked the pitch and it was -12 +5 degrees...!!?? What? I have no idea when it happened and why it happened. So last night I completely re-programmed the MicroBeast setting the pitch range to the usual -+12 degrees. I just finished a test flight and the heli is a beast, I had to increase the tail gain to 100% because when I hit the throttle hard for the first time it jumped up really fast loosing 180 or more degrees in the tail.

So I suspect that the pitch was somewhat compromised since the beginning, but it got worse after the crash. Can the BeastX do that?

The other conclusion is that there must have been something really wrong with the Gaui 5600 kV motor, those awful large vibrations can not be explained in my opinion by the 300 kV difference with the Hyperion motor.

So next I will fly a bit more the EP200 in 2D, and then maybe try flipping again but certainly it will be with some anxiety.....

[BillG]

I mis-wrote when I said set rpm mode. I'm using fixed endpoints.
If you got to Mr. Mel's HS calculator, enter 120T maingear/15T pinion, 5300Kv, 2S, Castle governor/no governor.

Governor (set rpm);
-3088 warns at too low
-4191 warns at min overhead
-4412 warns at max

No governor (fixed endpoints):
-5205 at 100%
-4680 at 90%
-4304 at 80%

So, if you use the CC governor you need some headroom, thus less max rpm. Either way works, use what feels better to you. I like the higher rpm.

I'm glad you're finding the Hyperion smoother- I did too.

Your tail gain at 100% with no wag sounds a bit concerning-have you tried moving the ball out on the servo horn? Will get you more mechanical gain and you can back off on the Tx gain setting (giving you more room for adjustment).

I've had weirdness with BX in the past with the collective as well. I end up checking the setup a few times, and again after flying it. Can't explain why either...
You should be good now with confirmed +- 12 deg and 100% rates.

[alphonso]

Hi DMALA, top TC should be 80 to 85 for your needs. For anything other than outside craziness or high wind I find 75 percent more than adequate. I run the 5600 KV with a phoenix 25 and only had mental headspeed before my castle link arrived and it was running in stock esc settings. stock is self calibrating and reaches full power at about 50 percent stick on the gaui. With your bird 15 tooth pinion is correct.

My 5600 needed a little balancing but performance wise I can discern no difference between it and the hyperion 5300 I have in my other 200 FES.

I found fitting the 17 tooth tail pinion smoothed it down a little when running high rpm.

Another thing to check is your main blades. I have many of the differrnt types of main blades gaui made for this heli and only the black high rigidity SP ones could be balanced. Even after balancing and correcting C of G I could not stop vibes from the mains. What I found was simple but quite disturbing.Every pair of white FRP and wooden blades had the hole for the bolt in a slightly diiferent position across the chord or length of the blade. So no amount of balancing would correct this. When this was corrected it was a different heli and seemed quieter giving the impression of less headspeed. Imagine how annoyed I was to discover this after buying 3 paiirs of each type to test on a 5 blade head. Also the black SP ones have the closest match between packs of 2, very handy for 5 blades.

In summary though, my 200 is in perfect flying condition and totally smooth, yet when flipped to idle up ( flat 85 ) is the loudest thing at the local indoor club. So you may possibly have a normal heli as long as your ESC is not in self calibrating mode.

[DMala]

Running into a few more bumps on the road..... To get a margin with the tail gain I moved the tail servo arm ball one position outwards, lowered the gain to 80%, and during the test flight observed some moderate tail wagging and lowered it further to 75%. Everything seemed good when suddenly the tail got into a nasty wag, and while emergency landing I hit the paving with a blade and tipped over. Cheap wooden blades and one grip linkage gone, boom twisted in the holder but easy to fix. So now with 60% gain it seems fine, but if I increase the throttle at anything more than a medium-high speed, the ESC shuts down and the heli drops like a rock. Is it that the Phoenix 25 governor can't keep up with the increased load and it shuts down rather than lowering the RPM? Brilliant. No damage on medium grass this time. Next I will try fixed endpoints BillG-style.

Alphonso it is interesting to hear that your Gaui 5600 kV motor required just little balancing (unless you meant it sarcastically), I must got unlucky because mine gave extremely strong vibrations to the point that I could not even hover or take off.

I put new blades in and they are still the wooden type, frankly with all the problems I am having I prefer something fragile like that to save the head components a bit in case of crash. But I checked the hole alignment (good) and balanced them (only required .01g). What was out of whack was the thickness of the plastic grip insert, I had to file it down quite a bit for one blade.

[BillG]

That's really unfortunate you are now having ESC (BEC?) troubles.
I would bet it's really the BEC inside the ESC that is shutting down with the BeastX attached. I've read that the BX is a bit power-hungry.

The BEC in the CC Phoenix 25 is only rated at 1.5A. I bet it's browning-out. I'm not sure why you experience this when going full throttle, maybe the tail servo is working extra hard? (Can you list what servos you're using?)

The ESC is rated for 25A continuous/35W peak, and the Hyperion 5300 (or Gaui 5600) will only draw about 18A max. I don't think it has anything to do with what mode gov/no gov you select.

But confirm by testing on bench w/motor-disconnected and do pitch pumps to really exercise the servos. See if you get a brown-out or reset of the BX? Maybe you need a separate BEC like the CC 10 BEC (10A max), weighs 11 grams.

I hope you get this sorted out. A Hurricane 200 FES has to be sweet.
I have a spare X2 head and a mini VBar clone waiting.... If mine didn't fly so good with flybar, I would have done it already!

Good Luck!

[DMala]

Well I am bit fed up now, also have damage to the blade grips requiring buying those 2x3.5x2.5 spacers. Taking a break for a while. Ino-lab HG-D202HB on cyclic and Ino-lab D201HB on tail. Thanks for the help so far.

[BillG]

A break can be a good thing; I get that way myself when something just gets too frustrating. You'll come back to it when you're ready ;-)

Anyway, I looked up specs on the Ino-Labs but no current draw specs could be found. Those servos seem suited for 450-size helis; maybe too much draw for the CC 25 BEC? But, you've been flying them before with no shutdown issues?

Maybe the CC 25 is just defective /damaged? Perhaps try another ESC?

[DMala]

OK I will see thanks, and no previous shut down problems at all. I will be away soon for a couple weeks and will get back into this afterwards.

PS I see you have a MiniProtos, last year I got a used stretch 6s, what a great heli (even if I have not found yet the guts to try to flip it except for once!)