Full Metal Upgrade

[Bee_random]

Intro;
What started as a minor upgrade has morphed into a total package. A couple of folk have suggested that I put a build thread together, so here it is. Hopefully this will help others coming along the same path and maybe others can set me straight when I get lost. In writing, I'm assuming that the reader has very little knowledge of these upgrades. Most will know this stuff already, but I know I had to ask a lot of dumb questions to catch up.

The plan;
Well the plan was to add a Sonix metal head to my existing Blade400, this already has Hitec65mg cyclic servos and a quark gyro. Unfortunately with the aid of some birthday funds I got a bit carried away and ordered the Sonix tail and CF chassis as well.

So now I've got the makings of two helicopters... this is when it dawned on me that I may as well go for broke (broke being the operative word) and build a new heli with all the upgrades and return the old one to stock... at least this way I really will find out how much the upgrades are worth. It will be another few weeks before I've finished this project, however the tinkering is a major part of the fun for me.

The Scene;
Just a little background, I've had my Blade400 for about 2 1/2 years. After the first year I took a break while life took over.. moving house, job and all that jazz. So this year I dusted her off and got going again. So I'm pretty much at the stage where I am comfortable hovering in all orientations (upright), slow piros and figure 8's circuits etc. ..but need to do a lot of work to get these under better control (specifically constant altitude). So in a nutshell this upgrade is for fun and well beyond my flying abilities, but I'm an engineer by trade and just love the tinkering and learning how things work.

Week 1
My CNC head, tail & chassis have just arrived from the US (I'm in the UK) and its spread across my bench in pieces. First impression; good quality parts, well thought out design, poor assembly instructions.. but then who reads the instructions anyway?? A little gentle fettling was required for the carbon fiber frame, but really only the minimum, no complaints here everything fits really snug...

I assembled everything lose last night, just to see what I didn't have and what I thought would fit that didn't. In short the only unexpected was the tail rotor blades, as the stock B400 blades are 2.1mm thick at the root and the Sonix tail has a gap 2.75mm. A quick forum search shows that all the Trex500 & 450 tail rotor blades will fit, so no drama there.

I am having problems assembling the fly-bar though. It looks like an identical construction to the stock fly-bar.. a threaded rod, paddles and weights. But when I try to screw the bar into the paddles (weights were already assembled to the paddles) nothing happens. This is made a little trickier by the fact that the paddles are bloody sharp at the trailing edge, I see no reason for this. Am I right to assume that the paddles screw onto the bar?

Question. The head assembly seems to have come with an extra set of dampers (green). There are some black dampers already in there so I left the green ones out. Are these extra and softer? And are these the same size as Align 450 dampers?

If folk are interested, I'll keep updating this with progress, photos and links to where I've found info.

Bzzzzzzzzzzz

[whoanelly]

Hey David,,yes the paddles just screw right onto the bar and the green dampeners are stiffer for better cyclic response .not sure if the Align 450 dampeners are the same though ?? on the tail grip size you have to request the Eflite grips or they give you the 450 size,,doesnt make sence to me either.i just use the 450 blades like youve done.
by the way you can use the Eflite flybar if you have some left over .

Good luck with everything and keep shooting pics.

[Bee_random]

I got the fly-bar paddle off the weight and found that the weight screwed into the paddle (Eflite weight also screws into the paddle) but that the weight has no hole all the way through to allow the paddle to screw onto the bar (as the Eflite paddle does).

Is it really the design intention to hold the paddle and weight in place by a single grub screw in the side of the weight, pushing onto the threaded part of the bar??? ~ that just doesn't feel right. But that's the only option.

[whoanelly]

those paddles must be new from CNC,,cause the ones i have doesnt have a weight just screwed right on.

[Bee_random]

Just got a note from Jeff at cnc to say these are an upgrade version... Which still doesn't help me, as I think the design intent was to screw the flybar weight onto the flybar and the paddle onto the weight... but the weight has a blind hole not a threaded hole and is useless.

[scott s]

Sounds like the the vertical hole was just not tapped for a set screw as the stock weights from the blade 400 are. I just dont know and I am nothing but fbl from now on. To me flybars are a curse, extra weight and mechanics etc but many still like them. I personaly hate em with passion HA! Anyways it looks just like an e-flite paddle weight that screws into the paddle and then screws into the flybar threaded end. The vertical hole should be for a set screw to lock it all in place. So what is missing??

Ya it sounds like the flybar on this design only screws into the weight after further looking and not into the weight AND paddle. This should not be a problem what so ever as long as a set screw locks it all in place. This will give extended "flybar" length and theoretical better stability. Again not for me HA!

[Bee_random]

The hole for the locking grub screw is tapped and fine... But the flybar just doesn't screw into anything. There's just an oversize hole where there should be a tapped hole in the weight. Surely this is a mistake?

[scott s]

NO, the grub screw holds it all into place! Have you not ever tried to back out an eflite paddle from the flybar after the grub screw has DESTROYED the threads? Just use a small drop of red locktite and tighten down the grub screw to the flybar. Just make sure the paddles are equadistant from the center plane of the head. You will be fine! File a small flat on the flybar if you think you need it. This is how it was done for years and I hated trying to back off a paddle from the e-flite design because the grub screw DID DESTROY the threads!

[Andrew73]

Interesting thread, I'll look forward to reading the updates Bee. What are the benefits of upgrading to a metal head/tail?

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Andrew73

Interesting thread, I'll look forward to reading the updates Bee. What are the benefits of upgrading to a metal head/tail?

Much more precise fit and control. And with the servo/ Cf body upgrades he is now on par with just about any heli sold today, in fact with the cnc body he is far better off than any other brand currently made. Nice job!

[Bee_random]

Week 2
Many parts ordered and many received, including the one-way bearing sleeve that I forgot, oops. Who’d have thought that one part could stop the whole build? I was going to strip my Blade down to get the gyro and servos off it for my project... rebuilding it with the stockers that are in a box to one side. But the weather has been uncharacteristically good and I went flying instead

Now it’s the weekend and the wind has picked up, it’s time to get on with the build. The plan is to assemble everything dry, no threadlock, and work out what doesn’t fit first.

First off the motor (Scorpion 2221-8) needed lifting by 3mm (as LMH warned me) to get the pinion to engage the main gear at the right height. I used a couple of large Nylon washers from the local DIY store. Lined these up with the centre hole on the mount and drilled through with a 3mm bit. A couple of longer screws were required, so if you’re doing this mod you’ll need to provision for a couple of M3x12 screws. The frame then needed a little fettling (needle file required) to elongate the slots for the motor mounts, so the pinion wasn’t hard into the main gear. This took the slots from 3.2mm to 5.0mm.

How I get the motor leads down past the servo is a head-scratcher. I’ve seen LMH’s mod’ but don’t want to go that way if I can avoid it. I think I’m going to cut back the heatshrink to get a bit more movement (these wires are not very flexible and the heatshrink makes the first 15mm really stiff).

Also I’m planning on fitting a Deens connector to two of the wires (red/black) to make disabling the motor less of a chore. Fitting XT60 connectors to all my batteries to avoid a future pant-pooping moment.

My Ice50 lite arrived and looks like it will fit nicely under the battery. I haven’t decided how to mount it yet. Label side up straddling the first bracing pin is looking like the way to go. I think I’ll need to do a little further fettling of the frame to get cable-ties sensibly located.

Picked up an AR7000, I haven’t decided where to mount the satellite though.

Do you guys mount the battery directly on top of the servo etc. or has anybody made up a lightweight tray to provide a stable base?

All going well, this is turning out to be even more fun than I was expecting!

Feedback for cnc if you’re listening.. great quality machining, great service, a couple of grumbles though. Mainly, anybody who’s buying your kit is most likely upgrading other parts as well; can you make the motor mounting more versatile? (wider slots and optional alternative mounts?) When selling a Blade400 tail upgrade PLEASE mention that the blades and fin should be for a trex450! I caught the blades requirement thanks again to the helifreaks, but missed the tail fin (no drama, but a little annoying).

And finally, against the comments in this thread; the ‘new’ flybar design is flawed. I refuse to use it as I’m convinced that the risk of this thing flying off is too high. Anyone thinking of getting it, I recommend you don’t. Everyone will have an opinion and that’s cool, however on this point I know what I’m on about, it's not safe. I’ll add a sketch later to make the point clearer, as I haven’t been able to describe my concern very well.

Thanks for all your feedback, every bit is appreciated.

[whoanelly]

Looking good Bee..

[Luvmyhelis]

great work so far bee!

There are two spots that work well for the sat, one, under the battery tray, the other out on the boom. And I tried everything to get the motor leads down into the body, But there ended up only being that one choice for me. So if you come up with something else without the wires running outside the body panel, I am watching.
I also have a large assortment of Xt connectors, but haven"t used them due to my charger board since it is setup for the deans (which I hate).

I also just pulled an all nighter getting my 6s backup flymentor heli up and running. I have to say that Jeff at cnc heli is great. He was up with me until about 12:30 am getting an order filled out and answering questions. In the end he is a parts guy, not an enthusiast doing custom builds or advanced work. So he may not be able to understand some of the concerns, but he does try. I have found flaws in every head, tail design out there in one way or another. Luckily most of the 450 parts are interchangeable to one degree or another, so in the end it all works out.
Keep the build thread going! I love watching this stuff. For some reason I cannot download any pics on this site so I can't help much.

[Bee_random]

Thanks guys!

Its getting there, hopfully this weekend I'll get her spinning up. The weather is due to be pretty poor so her maiden flight may have to wait a while. ('her' because she cost me a small fortune )

The attached photo shows that I attached the satellite to the underside of my tail servo, with room to spare.

I'm pretty happy with the routing for the motor leads now. I sent the Yellow down inside without modifying the chassis, and connected that to the White from the ESC (Ice50lite). The other two I tied down on the outside with a Deens connector, so I could disable the motor easily while tinkering (repairing). Once the canopy is on, no one will see these and the convienience of access to the leads is a bonus (for me).

I bound my DX6i today (DX7 in the wings) and got the servos all working and level ready for setting up the head (this evening?). Being a curious fella, I connected the motor to check that the failsafe worked (no blades/gears in at this point). I got some happy beeping from the motor, but no motor movement. Is it possible that the Red/Black wires from the motor are reversed? But then that would make the motor run backwards, wouldn't it? I'm not sure what's going on here. Anybody got a pointer?

Longer post coming at the weekend.

PS. No disrespect meant to Jef at cnc in my earlier post. You're right he gets the product out quickly and answers questions round the clock. Top service. I'll try to explain with a sketch this weekend, work is keeping me busy until then.. I feel like LMH should do after all those all nighters, THAT's dedication!

[Bee_random]

What a muppet! ...well after reading the manual; the throttle was reversed on the controller and so the motor was not armed, as I hadn't pushed the stick all the way up to zero throttle, if you see what I mean

Good thing I checked the frailsafe though, as when I switched the Tx off, the motor when off at full chuff! ~ time to rebind....all working now

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by Bee_random

What a muppet! ...well after reading the manual; the throttle was reversed on the controller and so the motor was not armed, as I hadn't pushed the stick all the way up to zero throttle, if you see what I mean

Good thing I checked the frailsafe though, as when I switched the Tx off, the motor when off at full chuff! ~ time to rebind....all working now

It happens to everybody, so don't be too hard on yourself. And I would post up pics since I just pulled another one last night on a new build till 4am on a custom cf bodied 450 with a flymentor and 6s mod. But this stupid new program on HF will not allow me to download pics of any kind. Kinda miffed at this point.
Keep up the great work! Oh yeah, remember to mount your canopy pins while you still have the body split. Now, get back to work

[Bee_random]

Yes Boss

[Bee_random]

Final setup ahead of her maiden voyage tomorrow.

There is something I just can't figure out though. My front swash to servo link is binding with the swash at full pitch. I can stop this by reducing the Elevator gain on the swash mix to 38%, but this seems too low.

I'm sure I've seen a picture of a swash that somebody here has filed down, but surely that's not the answer??? Can anyone advise?

[Luvmyhelis]

Two different ways to do this, actually three. You can file down the outer elbow on the swash and also do the same on the inner link facing the swash, or just put on extended balls that solve this by moving the links out farther from the swash.
I did all three on mine just observing the labor and differences each stage produced.

[Bee_random]

The build is pretty much complete. I’m really pleased with how everything’s gone and can’t wait to do a proper test flight, trim everything out and then eventually do a back to back with the stock Blade.

Lessons I learned for those planning on doing something similar; Um, my mind goes a bit blank at this point, but as I’ve spent so much time assembling and disassembling, filing and soldering, there must be a few.

I filed the ‘D’ out of blade on the chassis to get a cable tie in to hold the battery leads in place. This works (photo).

As mentioned (above) the leads from the motor don’t run the same route as the stock motor, which is a pain. But I’m happy with the result as I can now very easily disable the motor for setting the head.

I did have the satellite receiver (AR7000) under the tail servo (a DS520, so heaps of room!), have moved this to the top as it was catching on the boom brace. Just used a bit of gyro mounting double sided pad for this.

Watch out for the servo wires when assembling the chassis . The neatest routing is done with the wires in place during final assembly. But it’s easy to nip the insulation as I found on a subsequent disassembly (don’t ask why). Taped up now and it’ll be fine.

Where the boom brace mounts to the chassis/landing gear, there is a screw going into the chassis (horizontally). Initially I had assembled this with a socket cap, but this stopped the boom brace from fitting, so I used one of the low profile screws used for ball links etc (kit comes with plenty – thumbs up to cnc for supplying sufficient screws to allow for a loss).

As mentioned above; longer balls on the swash as standard please! I did notice that the Eflite links have more clearance one side than the other ~ look carefully and the stock balls may JUST work. Changing anyway.

Only one issue at the moment, but not a show stopper by any means. When checking the full throw of all the servos on the fully assembled setup, I’ve found a bind when at full negative collective and cyclic pitch ~ this would only be an issue to somebody doing some extreme 3D. The arm for the front servo hits the arm for the LHS servo (looking tail in). I’ve got 65mg’s and am on the second hole out (about 13mm center to center). It is possible to move the servo out by about 0.5mm on the frame, but no more. …just realized that to get round this I could swap the servos round, so the LHS servo is on the top!

There’s a hole in the middle of the chassis braces supplied. It would be handy if these were tapped. Some day I’m going to tap the one nearest the motor to put a screw in as a hard stop to prevent the battery from hitting the motor.


…a lovely Saturday morning and I’ve just taken my now stock B400 out for a spin.. damn my hands are still shaking.

For all noobs out there struggling to keep the stock 400 under control; this thing is an animal.. not so much a large powerful beast, more of a squirrel! It was all over the place, I’d forgotten how much difference all the little modifications make. Maybe those B450 guys have something after all? ..oh dear, what did I just say?? Bad dobby.

As for the new build; well I’ve only had it out on a couple of shakedown runs so far. I’m waiting on some CF tube that’s due in this morning’s post. I forgot to add the push rod support last time I put the tail together and the rod was vibrating so bad on the last run, I thought it might pop off its link. Hence not flying. But so far this thing feels as solid as a rock, night and day.. I kid you not it’s a different animal, no squirrel this time more of a sure-footed cat .

Weight; AUW for stock blade 720g, AUW for new build 875g (inc. same 2200mAh battery). That’s +20%.. is this what’s making the difference? I think it helps with the stability, but the servos, gyro and all round lack of slop is a big factor in such crisp control.

Was it worth the money? Probably could have gone out and bought a nice 500 or 550 for the price.. but worth it to me, no question. I have something just that little bit different (just like all the others)

A big thanks to all the others that have helped me out with the benefit of their vastly greater experience . This is what makes this forum so unique, not just the breadth, but the depth of knowledge.

Bzzzz, time to fly!