Flybarless Protos, share your files and your notes on your setups :)

[Inverse]

Originally Posted by ddhuans

Dont have any issue with Beastx and my P500 until now. Everything is running smoothly.
I recommend you guy should use one of famous FBL units like Brain/iKon, BeastX, Vbar or Skookum...You really get what you pay for!!!

I'd feel that putting a ZYX on my Protos would be akin to putting Shinko tyres on my Ducati.

[Dr. M]

Originally Posted by Inverse

I'd feel that putting a ZYX on my Protos would be akin to putting Shinko tyres on my Ducati.

Not at all. The zyx is a solid FBL system and the yet unreleased firmware v4 has great cyclic feel too.

[Inverse]

To be fair, I did have the first release ZYX which was an awful FBL system.

[ddhuans]

ya..Tarot ZXY is a good FBL unit buy what I listed out there are great FBL controller!!!

[Dr. M]

The v1 of pretty much every fbl system is generally terrible. As long as continual improvements are made, the zyx is on par with the lot imo.

And speaking of zyx support, read this https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=506393

And somehow the zyx seems to fly extremely well on the Protos, so well, in fact that I have no inclination to change it even after flying 2 top shelf systems including the Brain.

[sashin]

Hello Everyone.
I have just acquired a streched flybarless carbon Protos and i have the Full Size Blueline Vbar 5.3 Pro with my setup.
I am using the the Scorpion 900kv motor and Hobbywing ESC and the HobbyWing phase sensor with Vbar Gov.
I have the Hyperion HV servos on the cyclics and Align DS615 on the tail. All the distances for the servo and the horns for the cyclic and tail servos are as per manual.
I have a separate 2S Lipo for the electronics and 6S Lipo 2650mah for the main flight pack. 14T motor pinion.

I get to hover....and i get a wag....i have checked the mechanical integrity of the tail several times and all seems well. The tail push rod is a little tight and the ball links where the tail push rod attaches to the tail servo horn is a little tight. The tail pitch slider seems OK to me also. I plan to to ream the links a little so that the tail push rod moves smoother....Anything else i should be doing or thinking?

Vbar settings for Main rotor gain is at 50 and the tail rotor gain is at 90. I have checked my transmitter gyro gain and i have increased and decreased this at various intervals BUT this wag is still there on hover. Idle 1 1900rpm and Idle 2 at 2700rpm. Wag is present in both setting BUT less at Idle 2
I attempt a forward flight and i can barely keep it steady !!

Vbar file here is for Mini Vbar....can i use these settings for Full size Vbar also?
Any thought or feedback on what i should be checking or looking for?

Thanks in advance.

[ddhuans]

Originally Posted by sashin

Hello Everyone.
I have just acquired a streched flybarless carbon Protos and i have the Full Size Blueline Vbar 5.3 Pro with my setup.
I am using the the Scorpion 900kv motor and Hobbywing ESC and the HobbyWing phase sensor with Vbar Gov.
I have the Hyperion HV servos on the cyclics and Align DS615 on the tail. All the distances for the servo and the horns for the cyclic and tail servos are as per manual.
I have a separate 2S Lipo for the electronics and 6S Lipo 2650mah for the main flight pack. 14T motor pinion.

I get to hover....and i get a wag....i have checked the mechanical integrity of the tail several times and all seems well. The tail push rod is a little tight and the ball links where the tail push rod attaches to the tail servo horn is a little tight. The tail pitch slider seems OK to me also. I plan to to ream the links a little so that the tail push rod moves smoother....Anything else i should be doing or thinking?

Vbar settings for Main rotor gain is at 50 and the tail rotor gain is at 90. I have checked my transmitter gyro gain and i have increased and decreased this at various intervals BUT this wag is still there on hover. Idle 1 1900rpm and Idle 2 at 2700rpm. Wag is present in both setting BUT less at Idle 2
I attempt a forward flight and i can barely keep it steady !!

Vbar file here is for Mini Vbar....can i use these settings for Full size Vbar also?
Any thought or feedback on what i should be checking or looking for?

Thanks in advance.

Your tail wag at low RPM and better at high RPM is because your DS615 is designed for cyclic, its speed is too slow, very very slow for your tail, get DS650, DS655 or even Futaba BLS251, I'm sure 100% the wag will be gone, and your tail will hold better, rock solid!
And you should check your tail gain channel. is it change the tail gain value on PC screen when you change your tail gain on your Tx? Have you tried to lower your tail gain?

[sashin]

Actually you are right my rudder servo is Align DS 655 NOT DS 615 as i mentioned in my initial post. I have also found out that the tail blade grips were actually moving even though the screws that attach the grips to the central tail shaft were completely tightened. Anyway i have just purchased the thrusted bearing kit upgrade for the tail and will try this to see if the wag is resolved after this upgrade.

[ddhuans]

If it still wag, try to shorten your tail servo arm by moving the ball closer to the center to get more tail resolution. May be your mechanical gain is too high. With the lower mechanical gain and improved resolution, tail performance is improved.
And you should disable Vbar governor while tuning your tail (using V-curve or ESC governor instead). Vbar governor gain is too high can cause tail wag too.

[sashin]

Originally Posted by ddhuans

If it still wag, try to shorten your tail servo arm by moving the ball closer to the center to get more tail resolution. May be your mechanical gain is too high. With the lower mechanical gain and improved resolution, tail performance is improved.
And you should disable Vbar governor while tuning your tail (using V-curve or ESC governor instead). Vbar governor gain is too high can cause tail wag too.

Thanks will post when i have made the upgrade and inform if the wag is resolved.

[sashin]

Originally Posted by ddhuans

If it still wag, try to shorten your tail servo arm by moving the ball closer to the center to get more tail resolution. May be your mechanical gain is too high. With the lower mechanical gain and improved resolution, tail performance is improved.
And you should disable Vbar governor while tuning your tail (using V-curve or ESC governor instead). Vbar governor gain is too high can cause tail wag too.

Well i changed to the thrusted tail and i still had the wag.
FInally wag resolved completly at idle 2 @ 2700rpm BUT still present slightly at idle 1 @ 1900 rpm. It was resolved after i disabled the Vbar governer and just used the governor in my HobbyWing ESC. I will now try the the tail resolution issue by moving my tail servo arm ball link closer to the center and report back to see if i can get rid of the wag at lower rpm. Thanks for the help thus far ddhuans.

[ddhuans]

You're welcome. Helping you is help us too, we will have more experiences in tuning our birds

[dodgey]

Just converted my Protos 500. I fly mild 3D (inverted, flips) and sport.

MSH Flybarless head conversion kit. Hyperion DS16FMG x3, S9650x1

Tarot ZYX-S 4.1 on Futaba 9CAP with Spektrum module.

Moved Cyclic servo balls one hole inwards (= 13mm from middle. Original outer hole was MSH spec of 16mm, Tarot recommend 14-14.5 . This was close enough to give an XYZ collective range of -70ish (was -54 on the outer 16mm holes in the servo horn) at 12 degrees pitch range. I Fly at -62 which gives 11 degrees pitch range.

Cyclic range measured at 8 degrees.

Tail servo changed to 9mm as per Tarot instructions - 7.5-10mm (was at MSH spec, quite a lot further out).

Tail linkage shortened to give around 9 degrees pitch to achieve steady tail in Rate mode hover. Had to pretty much wind it all the way in at each end. Cant' see why you do this but the guide on here says so.... so.... (I never fly rate mode).

Tarot ZYX settings (still playing but this gives a smooth ride. Tail is brisk but not mental. Stops without bouncing. Doesn't wander much. Cyclic is crisp with no wobble. Stays exactly where you leave it when hands off sticks. I'm no 3D master so I have no idea about absolute performance.

BASIC
3D Soft
Roll Agi-35, Gain-50
Pitch Agi-35, Gain-50
Tail Yaw rate L-35, Yaw rate R-35, Gain 100

ADVANCED
Main Rotor
Roll P gain-85, I Gain-125, D Gain-30
Pitch P gain-85, I gain-125, D gain-30
RC Dead band 10, Gyro dead band 4, Burst 20

Tail Rotor
Yaw P gain-80
Yaw I gain-50
Yaw D gain-25
Accel L-110, Accel R-110, Dec L-15, Dec R-15 (Dec L and R came down a lot to stop tail bounce at end of piro stabs)
RC dead band-10, Gyro Dead-4
Tail Comp cy-t=0, col-t=0, zp=0

Futaba set:

Expo Cyclic = -40%, rudder = -24%

Seems OK so far.

[Dr. M]

very nice, dodgey.

Here's my ZYX v4.00 setup file for the Protos.