Align 450DFC FBL Feathering Shaft Float

[petertha]

I did a FBL conversion on my 450-Pro-FB & maidened it today. I'm very happy with how much more solid & better it fly's over the FB.

I have one issue though. I noticed the feathering shaft had a bit of play right from the get-go. If I push axially on one of the grips, it floats with a bit of end play in the main rotor housing. One of the experienced guys said maybe firmer rubber dampeners were in order. I just used the ones supplied in the 450DFC kit.

But I got looking at my parts sketch & see this "Washer (Option Equipment) 5.5 x 8 x 0.4mm". I dont recall this being in the 450DFC conversion kit. Is that what it's for, like a shim? Actually I bought a new shaft so as to leave the the old FB assembly intact, but maybe thats what they mean? (ie buy it yourself like the feathering shaft also not in the kit & also says (Option Equipment).

Dumb question, but looks like a threaded hole in the top of the rotor housing, nothing screws in there to retain?

[ipjodan]

That washer should have been on your old head along with the thrust bearings you have to move over to the new one etc....

The hole on the top will be for mounting the zero pitch angle tool thingy....

[Harty]

Yeah peter they are just shims to take up the axial play "if required". When I built my dfc head I required 2 on one side and 1 on the other so there was no play, but blade grips still spin free when all tightened up.

cheers
Harty

[Steemo]

No those shims are essential!

They transfer the axial load from the thrust bearing on to the outer race of the radial bearing and then onto the grips.

Without the shims the radial bearing wont be able to work as efficiently as the thrust bearing will be resting on both the inner and outer race.

[Magnum80]

I have the same issue. My factory 450 head , that I robbed shaft and bearings from, did not have these washers. .4mm x 2= .0315 in. Causes a severe shake during spoolup and shutdown. I checked my 250dfc. It has a tiny amount of slack also, although the align sheet does not show this washer on the 250 instructions.Also noticed the align dampeners are real hard. Does anybody have a pn or link for these? Can't locate by the size.

[petertha]

Thanks it all makes sense now. Everything they show on the FBL head schematic as 'optional' really means 'grab the from your existing FB setup' or replace as new. I installed both shim washers & its nice & snug now.

[Skidpad]

I received my DFC kit the other day, and am having the same issue.

In my case I am building from scratch to install on my Blade, so I ordered the DFC kit, feathering shaft, and thrust washer kit:
450DFC Main Rotor Head Upgrade Set /Black H45162
Feathering Shaft H45021A
Thrust Bearing HS1268

My problem is that the included shim mentioned and shown above, does not fit in the blade grips....the od is too large to fit inside. Additionally, the id is much larger than the feathering shaft itself, so it isn't a close fit whatsoever.

Here's the interesting part - in the picture above, it looks like the shim is 3x8x.4, yet my instruction sheet calls out 5.5x8x.4. My shim od measures almost 9mm.

Thoughts?

[Steemo]

The side of the thrust bearing marked "in" should be a little loose on the feathering shaft, the one marked "out" should be near perfect fit.

The shims included in the DFC upgrade kit are for the main shaft not the feathering shaft.
they go between the top bearing block and the fixed collar on the main shaft to remove end play.

The shims that go between the thrust bearing and the radial bearing are included in HS1291

[Skidpad]

Steemo....thanks! I'll check it out and report back. I do know that I have the bearings oriented correctly, but I'll check the fit on the feathering shaft too, as they could be mis-labeled.

Again, thank you for your response

[Skidpad]

Steemo - I received my HS1291 kit today (hand-delivered by my flying buddy who went to IRCHA and came home today, hehe), and that kit was exactly what I needed. The DFC head is now smoothe, slop-free and rotates perfectly.

Thanks!

[Steemo]

You are welcome, I'm glad it worked for you.

Happy flying

Originally Posted by Skidpad

Steemo - I received my HS1291 kit today (hand-delivered by my flying buddy who went to IRCHA and came home today, hehe), and that kit was exactly what I needed. The DFC head is now smoothe, slop-free and rotates perfectly.

Thanks!

[C182pilot]

I just converted my Trex 450 to FBL; I had the same problem with end play that everyone else has talked about. In fact when assembling the Feathering Shaft one time the thrust bearing got cocked which distorted it enough to ruin it and the small ball bearings fell out. What I did notice with this bearing was when I assembled it to the feathering shaft and put the screw in the shaft, there was a lot of play in the bearing which seemed unusual. Multiply that play by two (two sloppy thrust bearings) and it was about = to the end play of the assembled Feathering Shaft (originally I thought I was missing some spacers but none were shown in the assembly drawing). These thrust bearings had a brass retainer for the tiny ball bearings. So, off to Graves Hobby shop for new thrust bearings.
Now I'm back and disassembling the Feathering Shaft to replace the thrust bearing and discover that when I assemble this thrust bearing on the shaft with the end screw in place the bearing is snug with NO play! This bearing is different, the ball retainer is not brass and the bearing seems to be larger, fitting into the blade holder nicely. I now assemble the Feathering shaft per the diagram (no extra spacers) and Wa La NO END PLAY and everything turns freely. So apparently the thrust bearing with the brass retainer must have been the wrong bearing; HS1288T F3-8M Thrust bearing would be the right one; it has a NONE brass ball retainer.
Conclusion, many of you may have used the wrong thrust bearing; with the correct thrust bearing on the Feathering Shaft and the end screw tight, you should have extremely little or no play in the thrust bearing.

[DPW]

Originally Posted by petertha

I did a FBL conversion on my 450-Pro-FB & maidened it today.
I have one issue though. I noticed the feathering shaft had a bit of play right from the get-go. If I push axially on one of the grips, it floats with a bit of end play in the main rotor housing. One of the experienced guys said maybe firmer rubber dampeners were in order. I just used the ones supplied in the 450DFC kit.

But I got looking at my parts sketch & see this "Washer (Option Equipment) 5.5 x 8 x 0.4mm". I dont recall this being in the 450DFC conversion kit. Is that what it's for, like a shim? Actually I bought a new shaft so as to leave the the old FB assembly intact, but maybe thats what they mean? (ie buy it yourself like the feathering shaft also not in the kit & also says (Option Equipment).

Yes Old Old design problem.
IMO don't use the original Align DFC FS bearings washers.
All my Align 450 DFC are Upgraded to:
450 Feathering Shaft Set H45H005XX $9.99
Why?
Bearing and Washer confriguration caused premature FS failure. That washer you were pointing out rides on the bearing outer race. This caused the bearing to fail. Added benifit is the increased thickness of FS and bolts all new bearings.
Again
ASAP upgrade to H45H005XX

[don99]

Originally Posted by Dipweed

Yes Old Old design problem.
IMO don't use the original Align DFC FS bearings washers.
All my Align 450 DFC are Upgraded to:
450 Feathering Shaft Set H45H005XX $9.99
Why?
Bearing and Washer confriguration caused premature FS failure. That washer you were pointing out rides on the bearing outer race. This caused the bearing to fail. Added benifit is the increased thickness of FS and bolts all new bearings.
Again
ASAP upgrade to H45H005XX

Hi Dipweed,

I tried the new feathering shaft H45H005XX with Align 450 DFC H45162QN (blue) upgrade kit I just bought but it causes noticeable amount of slops in the blade grips.

I am not sure if you use the same dampers that come with the upgrade kit or different ones. Any additional washers needed for it?

Thanks .

[alyon187]

What kind of slop are you seeing?

[Sjaak1987]

I have a slop too.

With blades on the tips i have like a half centimer up and down play.
When the blades are of i can see that the grips have play up and down (with the shaft still in)

I noticed maybe i do something wrom but looks like my shaft is too short for 2 screws fully locked in.
Do i have to one side for the half an locktide is and then the other side..?

Sorry for my bad englisch.

[alyon187]

The blade tip slop of where when you move the tips up and down the blades deflect a bit. I asked this to my lhs heli guy and he said it was normal. My 450 pro dfc has it and flies great.

W the fs, you dont want any in and out play between the blade grips and the main hub. Some small amount of up and down play in the grips and at the blade tips is normal.

[don99]

Originally Posted by alyon187

The blade tip slop of where when you move the tips up and down the blades deflect a bit. I asked this to my lhs heli guy and he said it was normal. My 450 pro dfc has it and flies great.

W the fs, you dont want any in and out play between the blade grips and the main hub. Some small amount of up and down play in the grips and at the blade tips is normal.

Hi alyon,

I have not tried to put the blades on. I just grabbed the blade grips in one hand while holding still the main hub with the other hand then moved the blade grips up and down. That is when i see the slop. There is play between the blade grips and the fs. I removed the H45H005XX fs and bought the old style H45021A and thrust bearing H1268 like Skipad used, and the shims H1291 that Steemo suggested then the slop went away...???
I could do something wrong when installing the new H45H005XX, the align guy that sold me the new fs also told me that the H45H005XX is for 450L not DFC...??? I am confused.

[alyon187]

Which way did you install the thrust and radial bearings? The new fs requires a different order for them. The OLD fs has the thrust bearings on the outside (next to the bolt) the newer fs, that doesnt have the tapered end, has the thrust bearings between the two radial bearings. So the new layout from hub to grip should go damper, spacer, grip bearing, thrust bearing, brass spacer, radial bearing, washer, screw.

Also, which head block are you using? Does it have the single jesus bolt or does it have the jesus bolt plus two other bolts?

[don99]

Originally Posted by alyon187

Which way did you install the thrust and radial bearings? The new fs requires a different order for them. The OLD fs has the thrust bearings on the outside (next to the bolt) the newer fs, that doesnt have the tapered end, has the thrust bearings between the two radial bearings. So the new layout from hub to grip should go damper, spacer, grip bearing, thrust bearing, brass spacer, radial bearing, washer, screw.

Also, which head block are you using? Does it have the single jesus bolt or does it have the jesus bolt plus two other bolts?

Honestly, I did not pay attention to the thrust bearing order difference between the old and new fs until you mentioned it. When i installed the new fs I just followed exactly the diagram that comes with it. The diagram shows the order exactly the way you described.

The head block and blade grips I used comes with the upgrade kit (H45162QN). It has a single jesus bolt. Which Align head block you mentioned that has one jesus bolt plus two other bolts??? (I knew the new Tarot 450 DFC head block has 3 bolts)