SR spool up question

[MESummersII]

My sr stutters when it spools up and jack knifes the blades alot...not sure if there is a term for that. Are my blades too loose our is this a normal issue? I'm still slowly learning and not quite even hovering yet but I can't smoothly power up and down.

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[Imzzaudae]

You want the blades just slightly snug. If you tip the helicopter over they should hold.
If you give it a little shake they should fall. A lot of helicopters do the stutter thing when first powering up. No big deal.

What experience do you have other than the SR?
What radio are you using?

[MESummersII]

Not a lot...some coax and a little fixed wing. I bought the sales pitch of the sr being a good trainer I can fly outside. Waiting on my dx6i, a little fixed pitch bird to play with inside, and Phoenix to get here. I'm just getting started in the hobby so I'm not really sure how everything is 'suppose' to behave all the time.

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[Imzzaudae]

The problem beginners face is, you cannot stop and think while flying!
Once you lift the helicopter off the ground, the helicopter is naturally unstable and requires the pilot to keep telling it where ( not ) to go all the time. These corrections are small stick moments and it takes a bit of flying time to get your head and fingers working, without thinking move thumb. It soon becomes like riding a bike, you just stop falling over and ride but your going to skin your knee the first few times.

Helicopters with a tail rotor
Say you set your new helicopter on the floor set all the trims in the centre and give it throttle.

The helicopter goes up and left or slides left on the floor.
You see it, think about it, then it takes time to think move the right stick right.
Then you move the stick a bit. During the time you where seeing it, thinking move stick then move finger the helicopter was off getting into trouble. Your beautiful new helicopter is broken before you even moved the stick.

WHY
The main rotor blades are being driven clockwise by the centre shaft of the motor.
Now for every action there is an equal and apposite reaction so the outer housing of the motor is trying to spin the helicopter the opposite direction. That's OK as long as the helicopter is sitting on the ground.
The friction of the skids on the ground keeps the helicopter from spinning. But as soon as the torque
of the motor becomes more than the friction of the skids on the ground the helicopter will spin out of control counter clockwise.

So we put a fan on the back of the helicopter that blows sideways and stop the tail from spinning.

Now we can stop the tail from spinning counter clockwise but the sideways fan blows the helicopter left all the time. We have no choice but to tip the helicopter just a little right in order to stop the sideways drift caused by the tail rotor. When in a hover the helicopter must be tipped right all the time or it will drift left. You cannot change this.

When the helicopter is sitting on the ground it cannot tip so just as the helicopter is starting to lift you must add just a little right aileron to stop it being blown left. This is tricky at first but becomes natural after a few takeoffs. Once up you can trim the helicopter so it does not drift so much but it will still need your constant attention or it will be off getting into trouble again and again.

Take off
The hard part of taking off with a tail rotor helicopter is spooling the helicopter up and just as it begins to lift, you must input a little right aileron to hold the helicopter in place and add power.

This is a delicate operation, not enough aileron and the helicopter drifts left.
To much and you flip over.
This is an acquired skill not hard, but will take a little practice before your doing picture perfect liftoffs! Just lift the left skid a ¼ inch off the ground and add power. As soon as the helicopter lifts off release the right aileron and climb!

The Solution
Why 4 Chanel coaxial helicopters make good 1st helicopters.
Coaxial helicopters have 2 motors and 2 sets of blades that spin in opposite directions. They cancel out the torque of each other and we don't need a fan at the back to stop it from spinning.
No fan on the back equals no blowing sideways!
In order to turn the helicopter we slow down one motor just a bit and the torque of the other motor turns the helicopter. Coaxial helicopters also tend not to wander and will correct themselves if you just let the stick centre. New pilots get a chance to think move the stick and learn how to move the helicopter around without the helicopter constantly wanting to take off in a different direction every 2 seconds.

A good place to start
Any good quality 4 Chanel coaxial helicopter would be a great place to start flying.
The Blade MCX2 is a very nice helicopter and will provide new or 1st time helicopter pilots with the necessary motor skills required, before attempting a signal rotor fixed pitch helicopter like the MSR.

This is where the inherent stability of a coaxial comes in. If the trims are centred on the radio when you push the throttle up, the helicopter will rise pretty much straight up. It may spin a bit, just land and trim it out with a little rudder trim. Then take off again, gently move the helicopter forward a little bit with the right stick.

Big stick movements make big helicopter moments.
Don't make big stick moments or corrections you will end up out of control!

After a few flights you should be able to take off, rise straight up and hover.
Turn left, right fly all over the room and land without the helicopter running into things
like lamps and walls. Practice takeoffs and landings fly around the room sideways nose in nose out
fly forward backwards try everything you can think of to challenge yourself and have fun!

This is teaching your eyes, brain and fingers to work together without you having to stop and think about it. Once you are comfortable move the rods from the short balls to the long balls on your swash plate! Now the helicopter will handle a little more aggressively.

Although there are many people that can step into a collective pitch helicopter like the MCPX,SR a 400 at this stage and successfully learn to fly them, I'm going to suggest against this as most beginners would find themselves at a great disadvantage both in knowledge and experience.

You will need a good Fixed pitch trainer like a 120SR.
Learning to take off properly and move a 120SR around will take practice.
I highly suggest a helicopter you can fly every day in the house or garage.
Take a large peace of cardboard. 1 meter square.
In the centre mark a 12” square box out of green masking tape to set the helicopter in.

Keep the helicopters tail pointed at you at all the times. Tail control is paramount!
Make the helicopter stay over the cardboard.

Practice takeoffs and hover tail towards you. Move the helicopter around just a bit.
Tail always towards you. When it drifts away gently move it back over the cardboard.

Learning this simple skill will take time.
Don't rush it.

A well trimmed helicopter will make all the difference.
If the helicopter constantly wants to drift left. Land and move the aileron trim a click right.
If it wants to go ahead. land and move elevator trim 1 click back.
If it spins trim the rudder the opposite way until it stops spinning.
Keep trimming one click at a time until the helicopter settles down.

Don't forget that the MSR is a high performance indoor helicopter. Hit the gas and it's going past your head like a bullet. Gentle on the throttle stick.

This is a nice helicopter if you go easy, but quickly turns into an unmanageable beast if you start banging the right stick around be gentle!

When the helicopter moves it is not an emergency! Respond with gentle small stick movement
and the helicopter will do the same.

Take off Climb to 6 feet hover then move left a few feet slowly stop it and hover.
Move the helicopter back to the right and hover in front of you. Now move it right a few feet and hover. Always tail in. Bring it back in front of you hover power down and land softly.

Once you are comfortable moving the helicopter around a bit. Take off and assume hover.
Now rotate the helicopter from a nose position of 12 o'clock to one o'clock and hold the hover a few seconds then back to 12 o'clock. Then turn the nose left to 11 o'clock position and hold the hover a few seconds. Back to 12 o'clock and move ahead 10 feet hover and back hover. Do this simple exercise for a week before moving on to 10 and 2 o'clock for a week. Then 9 and 3 o'clock.
Take your time and enjoy flying the helicopter.

The most important part of this exercise is your patients and your willingness to practice takeoffs landings and hovering night after night until you can fly the helicopter without thinking about it.

No matter what you do, you will start out every flight taking off, hovering and you will end your flight hovering and landing. You may as well resign yourself to learning how to take off hover and land and do them very well.

After a few weeks practice you will be able to take the helicopter off hover when ever you want.
Fly it forward backward even hover with the nose at 9,10,11, 12 1,2 ,3 o'clock.

Now that you can move the helicopter around. Hover rotate the helicopter sideways and not loose control of it it's time to discuss turns.


Takeoff, hover,slow forward and land practice every day.
Then work on coordinated turns.

Forward flight and turns.
When in a stationary flight, hovering you can simply add rudder and steer the nose of the helicopter where you want it pointed.

While flying forward in order to turn your helicopter you need to do what is called a coordinated turn.

Imagine the helicopter is moving forward away from you.
You want to turn right.

Add a little right aileron and bank right. At the same time you must push the tail around behind the direction of flight with the rudder. Then you must add elevator up to hold the nose or the helicopter will slide down into the ground very quickly!

So it requires a little bank right, lots of rudder to push tail around and up elevator all at the same time to make the helicopter bank and come around to the right.

Left turn.
Bank left push tail around left behind and add up elevator

This is also an acquired skill it is not at all hard but will take practice to make the helicopter do graceful bank turns. Practice! Practice! Practice!

MCPX AS A CP TRAINER

Coming from any coaxial or fixed pitch helicopter like MSR or 120SR you will need to understand
the difference in the way MCPX will fly.

If it is your intent to use MCPX as a CP Trainer the first thing you will need is a DX6i or equivalent TX so you can calm the helicopter down sufficiently. MCPX is a super high performance 3D helicopter and it behaves like one!

MCPX is also a Fly bar less helicopter and will not correct itself. Not ever!
The helicopter will hold what ever attitude you input on your radio.

If you input just a little forward then let the stick centre the helicopter will fly forward until it runs into something or you tilt it back a bit to stop it's forward flight then level it out in hover.
The aileron and elevator respond the same, you need to be aware of this. You must counteract every command and be very precise in order to hover MCPX or it will just slide all over the place on you.

Take off
When taking MCPX off. The helicopter needs to be flown off the ground. As you increase power
you will be able to see the helicopters attitude changing. If it wants to lean, very gently correct it's attitude with aileron or elevator input as needed to make the helicopter straight up and down before adding take off power.

It is paramount that you have control the tail of the helicopter before lifting the helicopter off the ground. When you lift the helicopter. If it has the slightest lean in any direction, that is the direction the helicopter is going to go. There is no fly bar to help stabilize this helicopter in hover!

If the helicopter goes anywhere but straight up 6 inches. Immediately power down and start again!

Do this again and again until you get the feel for it and your helicopter climbs straight up.
About 6 inches off the floor. Power down and do it again and again until it feels natural.

It is up to the person piloting the helicopter to correct it's attitude and it's drift. ALWAYS!!!!!

The reduced input settings I have at the end of this document for DX6i radio will tame MCPX to a point it will hover for even the newest pilots but I highly suggest you get a little simulator time so you have some idea what to expect. Even an hour playing with the a simulator at your local hobby shop will help you in a rely big way.


HOVERING MCPX
Once off the ground stable at 6inches, add a little more power and climb the helicopter 3' off the floor, Directly in front of you. Keep that tail pointed at you all the times. If you feel the helicopter is getting away from you at any time. Chop the power land and start again. MCPX responds quickly
to aileron and elevator input and accelerates very quickly so don't let it get away on you.
Dropping it from 3' onto carpet will not hurt the helicopter, running into something hard at high speed will.

Don't worry your helicopter is pretty tough and will take quite a bit of punishment but make every effort not to run into things with the power on. Either chop the throttle or hit the throttle hold switch and shut down the motor before the helicopter hits the ground or anything else.

At this point your sole objective is. Gently lift your helicopter off the floor, climb 3 feet in the air and
keep the helicopter somewhat stable tail in. That's all

No more than 3' off the ground, 10 or 15 seconds then land the helicopter and breath again.
Do this 20 or 30 100 times what ever it takes to get comfortable with the helicopter.

When you are comfortable climb to 6 feet, hover a few seconds, decrease power and land.

When you can do this without the helicopter getting away on you move the helicopter forward
a few feet and stop it. Hover then back it up and hover again. Reduce power and land.

Take off Climb to 6 feet hover then move left a few feet slowly stop it and hover.
Move the helicopter back to the right and hover in front of you. Now move it right a few feet and hover. Always tail in. Bring it back in front of you hover power down and land softly.

Once you are comfortable moving the helicopter around a bit. Take off and assume hover.
Now rotate the helicopter from a nose position of 12 o'clock to one o'clock and hold the hover a few seconds then back to 12 o'clock. Then turn the nose left to 11 o'clock position and hold the hover a few seconds. Back to 12 o'clock and move ahead 10 feet hover and back hover.

The most important part of this exercise is your patients and your willingness to practice takeoffs landings and hovering night after night until you can fly the helicopter without thinking about it.

No matter what you do, you will start out every flight taking off, hovering and you will end your flight hovering and landing. You may as well resign yourself to learning how to take off hover and land and do them very well.

After a few weeks practice you will be able to take the helicopter off hover when ever you want.

Fly it forward backward even hover with the nose at 9,10,11, 12 1,2 ,3 o'clock.

Now that you can move the helicopter around. Hover rotate the helicopter sideways and not loose control of it it's time to discuss turns.

As with any helicopter bank turns with MCPX will take a little practice.
Always remember when you bank MCPX it drops it's nose and accelerates very quickly.
Be prepared with a little up elevator to hold the nose from dipping and the helicopter zooming off.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze6ScJhubQA[/ame]

Please spend some time on the simulator before attempting a CP helicopter.

MCPX as a CP trainer it is nearly indestructible. It will cost less than the parts you will break on the SR in a crash or 2 and its a blast to fly. PM me if you like and I can send you tame MCPX settings for your DX6i

The SR is a nice helicopter but you will spend a lot of time and money fixing it.
better off keeping it as a second CP helicopter.

hope you do well and enjoy the hobby.
Ron

[MESummersII]

Hey man, thanks a lot for the advice! Ton of great information there. Th support on these forums is extraordinary and some of you guys should really be on the payroll of some of these online hobby suppliers and heli makers for helping to expand this hobby. I don't really have the $$ to buy a mCPX at the moment after dropping the $$ on the SR, a DX6i, and Phoenix but as soon as the sim gets here I will be spending a good amount of time on it.

I also had to save a bit of money per the boss' (wife) orders and got a little Xieda 9958 instead of the mSR to practice stick control and orientation with sitting around the living room after the kids are in bed. I just got it yesterday and went through two batteries last night. It seems to fly pretty well although I don't have a lot to compare it to. Only problem with it is I have to use the stock Tx since it won't bind with the DX6i. I've been picking a point on the ground, used a magazine, to try and hover over to practice then try and judge the size of the box I actually held the hover in. So far I've managed about 15 seconds or so within probably a 3'x3' box. My biggest issue with it so far is finding the right throttle to get a level hover without going up or down.

Quick question about Phoenix here. Do you program in all the pitch curves and so forth into the sim or does it actually read the settings in your Tx?