The help me understand how the gov works thread

[Luvmyhelis]

Could very well be those batteries. I am trying to nurse some packs through this season. Some still hard, but all have less than 1ohm per cell even though they puff when pushed. All the HW sensors are fairly new? But I ordered one this am just to check. Thank you so much for the in depth look. I was taking it pretty easy in flight as my skills got real rusty quick after a month long break. New meds I am getting used to are fogging me up slightly also. No need to ground pound my helis due to me being off my game.

So I will decrease the Goblin high ramp. It is already spooling on heli fast at 4% so there isn't much room for the initial spool to increase. I believe you correctly gave me good advice on proper gearing earlier.
And I am pretty sure the battery's got a good workout last season running the KDE gen 3, a few speed runs on top of it. Especially my Nano puff 4400s. The 5000 Pulse set is still hard as a rock.

And on the 600 I have a proper KV matched half off Quantum motor en route. Just happened to find a clearance sale this am on it. And I know those batteries are getting their last flights in this summer. We'll see if this helps the gearing issue. There was just no way to tame down the 630kv motor to hit the right range. If I can safely pull it apart this winter I will rewind it. Next I am curious, as the Yge 160s are on the edge of being versions that may have the signal leads working. I will check later today!

[georgi UK]

=] Randy, if I have looked at 100 of your gov logs to find the issue is you run the same duff packs on all of your helis? Me and Omer are on our way over! It will take more than a BBQ and a few beers to settle us down!

[omerco]

I don't think its the sensor I think it is the combination of the sensor and ESC. But it makes not big diff in your case as after the init the signal is fine.

Yes I see your flying is very easy and light. explains why the governor output is so low around 60%. to measure the gearing right you need to do your normal flight routine and see how high it is. should be around 80% to leave overhead for the governor.

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by georgi UK

=] Randy, if I have looked at 100 of your gov logs to find the issue is you run the same duff packs on all of your helis? Me and Omer are on our way over! It will take more than a BBQ and a few beers to settle us down!

Originally Posted by omerco

I don't think its the sensor I think it is the combination of the sensor and ESC. But it makes not big diff in your case as after the init the signal is fine.

Yes I see your flying is very easy and light. explains why the governor output is so low around 60%. to measure the gearing right you need to do your normal flight routine and see how high it is. should be around 80% to leave overhead for the governor.

It is my on/off transition from young and violent to a flying condition called oldmanitis...... it may be fatal, as spectators end up falling asleep and needing stimulants to revive.

[Luvmyhelis]

Found the paperwork on one of my YGE 160s, which has a reference to the rpm sensor. Do I need to make the funky wire adaptor that they created for the Vbar to use on the Skookum also?

[omerco]

Yes. And BTW - beer is good enough for me!

[pctomlin]

Figure I would get in on some of the guru knowledge transfer from omerco and Georgi on governor setup. Very happy with the headspeed hold on my X3, light years ahead of what the CC50 was doing.
I have attached the log from my last flight. I have my settings currently at 50/50/100 and flight mode RPMs at 2800/2950/3100 with a Hobbywing 50A V3 ESC and Hyperion 2221-1630/13T pinion on 6S. It appears from the governor output I can raise my headspeeds some (50 to 100 rpms?).
Spool up has a pause around 50% then ramps up to desired speed. I would like to smooth out the middle transition. Current ESC spool setting is Heli Governor Off. From HW manual - Heli Governor Off: When the motor starts at 5% throttle, the startup is very soft and it takes 11 seconds to reach the full speed from standstill.

[Luvmyhelis]

Aaand, drum roll please. Here is my own Gob 800 spool up with the "correct" (took two tries) Vbar sensor wire link to the IOC port. First half dozen times it wouldn't grab, but this one took. Odd, the hand over changed as it was flawless with the HW sensor?

Heli med at 4%. Anything faster on the spool the big 800 twists a full 180 to 360 in the grass. No flight report yet as my tri 120mm tail setup does a 180 punching it. 130s on the way. The uncommanded piro flip yesterday was all the excitement I needed for a while.

[omerco]

Originally Posted by pctomlin

Figure I would get in on some of the guru knowledge transfer from omerco and Georgi on governor setup. Very happy with the headspeed hold on my X3, light years ahead of what the CC50 was doing.
I have attached the log from my last flight. I have my settings currently at 50/50/100 and flight mode RPMs at 2800/2950/3100 with a Hobbywing 50A V3 ESC and Hyperion 2221-1630/13T pinion on 6S. It appears from the governor output I can raise my headspeeds some (50 to 100 rpms?).
Spool up has a pause around 50% then ramps up to desired speed. I would like to smooth out the middle transition. Current ESC spool setting is Heli Governor Off. From HW manual - Heli Governor Off: When the motor starts at 5% throttle, the startup is very soft and it takes 11 seconds to reach the full speed from standstill.

You can increase your headpeed a lot as your flight style is very light and your governor output is around 40-50% which is very low, or you could drop your pinion down and gain more flight time.

Or you could start flying 3D...

for the startup - you could try lowering (shortening) your lower ramp number it might solve it.

[omerco]

Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis

Aaand, drum roll please. Here is my own Gob 800 spool up with the "correct" (took two tries) Vbar sensor wire link to the IOC port. First half dozen times it wouldn't grab, but this one took. Odd, the hand over changed as it was flawless with the HW sensor?

Heli med at 4%. Anything faster on the spool the big 800 twists a full 180 to 360 in the grass. No flight report yet as my tri 120mm tail setup does a 180 punching it. 130s on the way. The uncommanded piro flip yesterday was all the excitement I needed for a while.

Looking much better you could lower the HIGH some more but if you are happy just leave it.

For the second and 3'rd startups - on YGE if you want bailout you have to set the TH to slow idle (motor still spinning). what you have now is: SK trying to fast spool. ESC is soft starting - same overshoot as you had before.

Or try to do the other spools when you are in 0 throttle (not -10) for enough time to cancel the bailout in SK.

Last - as said before: on YGE/YEP use 2% startup always. you might end up damaging your drive gear with the kick it gives.

[georgi UK]

=] ok, here we have a real-time SK Governor mode, using a slow spool rate that shows how the gov interacts with the ESC spool up ramp, and the differences that can, or cannot be found by introducing the SK Low/High/Overdrive % settings into this, and their direct relationship to the throttle curve.

Importantly for me, is to demo the whole picture and to avoid the confusion of what does what, as there seems to be a thick mist mainly because, SK covers the basics and We fill in the blanks!

Myself, I have always resonated with the SK gov, from the beginning in the early Hyperion sensor days to the later Hobbywing digital sensor, I only ever had an issue in understanding the "common ground" using 2 packs, one for flight, the other for on-board electronics.

In a way, we are very lucky because SK have taken the P&I out of our Gov settings, this can make it a nightmare as the tail P&I needs to be tweaked also! So we use gov gain vs tail gain to easily find this balance.

I will post the entire combinations showing Low%, default%, High% to clarify it's effects, and the variables of each, from today test 5, low ramp 10, high ramp 10, overdrive 500 as an example,

First is a normal spool, followed by an Idle2 spool =

[Luvmyhelis]

Brilliant stuff! Thanks to you both.

Ok, dropped down the initial spool hit to 2% on the first two I am playing with today. 800/700 Gobs. I was set to go fly today but the health issues say no way. Fingers are just not coordinated at all, and super fatigued.

But that gave me some bench time. So, my Gob 700 has been a thorn in my side here so far. After the first spool (log 433) and seeing the gov ramp go nearly straight up in spite a lower high setting. As lowering the high netted zero changes. I got suspicious. My batts in this heli are healthy. No hand off of course till I hit Th with a partial spool.

So I took the working verified HW sensor that I took out of my 8 and installed it in the 7. Bang. Beautiful flawless spool. Perfect hand off, with no other changes. Other than dropping my over drive down to 100 per Georgi's advice earlier. No more over spool! Just a perfect controlled spool and easy hand off. (log 434)
All along it again was the d@mned HW sensor giving me grief! Two now on different helis.
Without you guys spotting it earlier and showing me why, I would have never figured this one out.

Much appreciated!

Omerco, I am set to setup a three way toggle for my autos using 20% throttle. Then full Th on the second click...

[omerco]

Lets go!

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by omerco

Lets go!

New Quantum showed up this afternoon, man was that fast or what? But the 600 rated new motor is massive compared to the Scorp. A full 475g compared to 340, but the wire od in the winds is much much thicker, hopefully the motor is more efficient. But I doubt the extra mass gives me any breaks? I suspect it will be impossible to bog this one.
13T in place on the 530kv motor, here we go.
Also reprogrammed my Jeti tx and moved the three position toggle into the TH position. Also eliminated the HW sensor in my Triabolo and built a connector for the signal lead there. Been busy.

Wow, this 600 has some kahuna's now again. Log 99. Just a quick spool and some easy pumps..

[Luvmyhelis]

But: Omer I am listening and setting all my helis to 2% initial spool ramps on high. Also dropping the high ramps down to quit the over spool issue. So I eliminated the auto spool on my 600 and dropped the 120 high to 100. Never seen a heli do this before? (log 101).
Just sits there searching, head speed ramps by itself up then drops down, over and over again in norm. Notice the head speed ramp drops significantly on 2% over the nearly vertical instant ramp auto gave it? I no longer have the hard hit on the gears from the esc bump at start. Which is now much better, but. The gov seems to not be able to catch it now?

Odd, on my 700 with the exact same gov settings the gov ramp is much milder and still linear, were here there seems to be a notch as the high ramp hits on this 600? Maybe another bogus sensor?

Edit: changed the sensor to one I know is good out of my Triabolo. Took another spool, bang perfect with no changes!
Notice the gentle gov ramp on log 102 compared to the vertical ramp in 101? Again! Yet another skank HW sensor? All three on my fleet out of four were bad! No wonder I was having gov issues all along. And couldn't figure the settings out, as nothing seemed to work correctly. Even though I was seeing the gov input light telling me it was seeing the motors turn, the sensor was still bad in every case, or is this last log an aberration?

[Luvmyhelis]

And now again, changing absolutely nothing, I go out to spool it up again after the perfect last spool. And bang. The gov seems dead again or I have another issue? Log 105.

[Luvmyhelis]

Brand new sensor. Log 106. The one time earlier gentle spool is gone, the gov gentle ramp is also gone? So much for my eureka moment. And what are these weird motor rpm spikes before the throttle is on? And again one right after?

[omerco]

I have a strong feeling it is not the sensor: either the soldering is bad or you have something electrically wrong.

Take log 101 - the throttle (governor output) is on steady 60%, yet the ESC is behaving all wrong (are you sure your ESC settings are right??).

more - You change sensors but the problem stays. this aims the blame to other parts. you still have many glitches of RPM.

You need to check all you connections and inoculations between motor and ESC phases to themselves and to the frame, and sensor's soldering and maybe a dead connector (female).

[Luvmyhelis]

Originally Posted by omerco

I have a strong feeling it is not the sensor: either the soldering is bad or you have something electrically wrong.

Take log 101 - the throttle (governor output) is on steady 60%, yet the ESC is behaving all wrong (are you sure your ESC settings are right??).

more - You change sensors but the problem stays. this aims the blame to other parts. you still have many glitches of RPM.

You need to check all you connections and inoculations between motor and ESC phases to themselves and to the frame, and sensor's soldering and maybe a dead connector (female).

Ok, sounds like a good idea. I did go back and set the Yep esc on auto as it seems to not like the 2 or 4%?
As I keep seeing things like this. Log 122 looks fantastic and hands off perfectly. Nice slow ramp on the gov, then the very next spool, by simply powering up the heli with the same settings and touching nothing. Sees the gov ramp nearly straight up again. I did relocate the gov sensor leads and re soldered those into place for the new sensor, but will look through everything. Thanks!

Edit: rewired the entire heli. Soldered in all new stuff on every connector to do with the HW sensor, motor, ect, then pulled and checked all the servo bus plugs. One great spool, then issues with all the rest I try. So time to once again go through all the esc settings and maybe ramp the thing back up to heli fast auto.

[Luvmyhelis]

Looks like this weird throttle signal anomaly is killing me here.