Cypher 3D - Love this Heli!

[maddog57]

Hey Cryptovariable.. I use a DX6i with a AR6200 RX. I'd like a DX7, but my wallet says "no"! The 6i works great for me for now. So far haven't had any RX power problems. The ESC hasn't shut down on me either like i've read about in the past. I'm using analog servos on cyclic [airtronics 94091,hitec HS65] and the Logictec 3100 digital on the tail. The ESC/BEC has handled them well. I would think there wouldn't be a problem using all digital servos. The Cypher Ron Lund sells as a combo comes with three Futaba DS3153's on cyclic and the 3100 logictec on the tail. So I guess the 2a BEC can handle them. I've seen others ask of the BEC voltage, and no one knows what it is. I'd guess somewhere around the 4.8v or a little more?!?! Somebody correct me if I'm wrong!

The FMA CellPro products are exellent [charger, batt., etc]. I'm using the black label 2200mah 25c 11.1v 3s batteries [6 of 'em] and they've been flawless so far. Only get warm after 8-9 min flights, discharging down to 20-25% charge, and all 3 cells recharge to exactlly the same! If I could fly better and push it, they'd probably get a little warmer. I have two CellPro balancing chargers. A 4s and the multi4. Both IMO are some of the best on the market. A bit pricier than others, but like all things, ya get what ya pay for. I'm gonna get a few of the Zippys to try. hear lots of good things on them. My understanding is the higher the "c" rating, the better. I'm staying with 25c or higher.

Hope i've helped, Chris

[Vechlor]

I've also been reading about 'brown-outs' and such with the Spektrum receivers due to a low power state. Earlier in this thread I read where most of you run the stock ESC and BEC with no problems. I was doing some (very) basic calculating and was wondering if someone could help me with this one: If the stock BEC can provide 2A MAX, and you have 3 analog swash plate (micro) servos that can draw up to 450mA, a gyro that claims 20mA, and digital tail rotor servo that uses up to 450mA (at LEAST!), plus whatever the receiver itself uses, I get (450mA x 4) + 20mA + 10mA? = approximately 1830mA +. So if one was moving all 4 servos simultaneously under load, in theory, the 2A BEC should be able to handle this right? I know the digital servo will use more mA than I listed, and this seems like it could be pretty close to the 2A limit (if the BEC is rated realistically). Could this cause problems?

Back in Nov '08, I herd of two recalls for the Spektrum receivers, a loss of signal bug, the second recall I forgot. There was a firmware update to 1.6 which I think fixed this problem, but in order to receive the update, you have to mail them your receiver. The version number is located on the bottom of the receiver.

As for digitals on the cyclic and tail, you should be fine as long as they run at 4.8v and not pushed to 6v.. I think the 2100t can handle 6v, but I don't recommend it.

And finally, does anyone know how many volts the stock BEC puts out on the Cypher?

A volt meter is your best friend!
I've read on other forums people using digitals in their Cypher, even running them at 6v! But don't expect this ESC to preform miracles, especially in the air with the heli gods watching... In some posts I've read, they would replace their esc with something from align if they planned to burn up err.. push their gear hard.

There's something familiar about these photos, I can't put my finger on it..

Btw, I'm using a Bantam BC6 charger, it can charge multiple li-pos at once with the multi-battery link accessory. I love it!

[blvdbuzzard]

I am not sure I want RED aluminum parts. I have a Diablo, red, MX450, red, black, silver, blue, green would be OK. I have red all ready.

Vechlor, where is the pic from?

Dru.

[Ah Clem]

I installed the radio and test hovered my Cypher today.

I think the whole thing took me about six and a half hours (I work very slowly).

All of the screws/hardware was checked for locktite or zap (where the screws thread into plastic). The spindle bolts came out way too easy (no locktite from the factory), the three screws holding the bearing into the swashplate moved a bit too easy, as did the long bolt through the tubing and ball link (anti-rotation) into the swashplate. The two bolts which go through the washout levers are too short-although I zapped them in, I will be replacing them with longer bolts before too much flying.

Thank you to Dru for suggesting that all of those things be checked.

Radio is a JR 12X with DS285's and a 3500G for the rudder. I ended up using the GY520 to test it before it went into the Atom (although I might end up getting another for the Atom). An external BEC was used as (as someone mentioned above four digital servos might be a lot to ask of the stock two amp BEC in the ESC).

I did not fly the stock main and tail rotor blades. I had a new set of Align 325 CF blades and a set of orange KBDD tail blades so those were installed to begin with.

This thing was extremely stable in the hover-much moreso than my Mini-Titan or TREX 450's. I locked in very well. It flew right off the bench with no tracking adjustment, but did require quite a bit of aft elevator trim as it is somewhat nose-heavy.

I will be installing longer servo arms tomorrow. I tried the stock/recommended 10mm length arms and they are too short-not enough throw in the cyclic. I am also having to work around the arm on the elevator servo as it, initially hit the top of the tail belt drive pulley at full deflection and at full negative pitch.

With any luck, I will get to fly it around tomorrow. If I do, I will report back.

So far, I like it!

[Vechlor]

I found those pics from a news post, but it was pulled from the site.
The photos are from Nuremberg Toy Fair 2008.

Nuremburg 2008 (10 min 8 sec)

I'm only half way through the video, haven't spotted the new Cypher concept yet.

[irjamesm]

I'm using the Airtronics RDS 8000, as Dru is too. It is my first 2.4ghz radio, i bought it on sale for $179.99 ,and it came with 2 receivers! So i put the other in my multiplex twinstar II plane.It has worked flawlessly, I ues a mutiplex multicharger LN-5014, and a astro blinky balancer

James

[wmartin38]

Originally Posted by Cryptovariable

Hello everyone.

I appreciate the answers I received to my last post about the sticking swash plate and mixer. I contacted Global Hobbies as Vechlor suggested, and they want me to send both rotor assemblies to them for troubleshooting and possible replacement. Being an only child, I don't share very well, and I'm quite protective of my toys once I own them. So... instead of having someone else wrench (i.e. beat) on them, I think I'll just fix them myself looking out for the things blvdbuzzard and Vechlor mentioned (actually, I think one IS dried main shaft goo and the other IS a slightly bent guide pin, just like each of you suggested). Thanks again for the advice.

Moving on, I was wondering what radio systems you all use in your Cyphers. I used to be a Futaba-only guy, but I decided to go with Spektrum this time. Since I posted last, I bought a Spektrum DX7 and an AR6200 receiver for mine (I also bought some training gear, ball link pliers, a ball link measuring tool, a 5mm swash plate leveler, 300 small zip ties, a pitch gauge, the NEW version 2 (black) Logictech 2100T gyro & 3100G servo, and these really cool plastic micro servo mounting grommet thingys). Now I'm looking into batteries and chargers! Any suggestions?

I've also been reading about 'brown-outs' and such with the Spektrum receivers due to a low power state. Earlier in this thread I read where most of you run the stock ESC and BEC with no problems. I was doing some (very) basic calculating and was wondering if someone could help me with this one: If the stock BEC can provide 2A MAX, and you have 3 analog swash plate (micro) servos that can draw up to 450mA, a gyro that claims 20mA, and digital tail rotor servo that uses up to 450mA (at LEAST!), plus whatever the receiver itself uses, I get (450mA x 4) + 20mA + 10mA? = approximately 1830mA +. So if one was moving all 4 servos simultaneously under load, in theory, the 2A BEC should be able to handle this right? I know the digital servo will use more mA than I listed, and this seems like it could be pretty close to the 2A limit (if the BEC is rated realistically). Could this cause problems?

And finally, does anyone know how many volts the stock BEC puts out on the Cypher?

That's probably enough for now.

Thanks! See you next time.

I have been using the stock ESC with no problems and 3 digital servos and the Futaba 9257 tail gyro.. It is at the limit of the ESC which is why mine was getting so hot.. I recently had a crash and am upgrading my now damaged ESC to a scorpion one.

I have never had a brown out with my Dx7 and 6100 reciever.

[Iceberg86300]

Hi fellow fliers.

Had a Cypher for a few months now, and im having serious issues with where to put electronics.

Everything is in the recommended locations. However, I am running a hyperion 35A PSW speed control. It is thin but quite a rectangle. I had been flying on older 1300mAh batteries left over from my AxeCP, but have since upgraded to Hyperion Litestorm 2100 3s packs http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=3171

Awesome batteries, but as you can see from the above link the batteries have a rounded edge on the tail end basically gives no support for the battery because of the short battery ledge. The battery strap is useless, plus I can't get the canopy on now.

Anyone have any pictures showing their electronics setup? Or some suggestions?

Oh, also, I forgot that I have an RDU to hook up as well. Help me get this bird in the air and you get data. Amps, voltage drops, power output, RPM, and even throttle position

I'm also wondering about these deal extreme blades. I know they are factory seconds or what not, but are they branded? Do all the sellers of these blades use the same manufacturer? Think I'll be getting some anyway, was just wondering what the deal was.

Please help!

Steve

[Vechlor]

Hi Steve,

I tried going by the manual too, but it didn't work out that well, so I tried placing the electronics in different locations until I found the best solution. I ended up placing the Rx in the nose where they show the ESC so the servo wires would reach without having to use extensions, the ESC was mounted below the main gear on the left side of the frame with the heat shrink removed to keep it cool. I also ended up remounting my motor 180 degrees counter-clockwise so the wires are inside the frame to hook up the ESC, I also did the paper gear mesh trick while I was at it.

I have some photos of my setup here.

All my batteries are roughly the same size by different brands, mostly generic, but I try to find anything close to 110 x 35 x 26 (LxWxH mm). The battery leads should be atleast the same length of the battery to reach the ESC.

For the RDU, it might fit under the tail boom mount where the gyro sits on top. Since the Cypher is nose heavy, placing this in the back area will help a bit.

I haven't tried the DX cf blades, but the ones I use from HobbyCity cost a bit more and you get a perfect pair in both quality and balanced. For a beginner, I would probably go for the DX blades, they are much better than woods in every way and cost the same if not cheaper.

[Iceberg86300]

Thanks for the info and the pictures. I love your canopy, is that aftermarket or did you paint it yourself?

Also, I noticed you have the logictech setup. I had the sam until a masive boom strike, after that the servo would only travel slowly in one direction. I really liked that servo

So don't add boom strikes to your skill set

Oh, and my pack dimensions are 32*113*26 WxLxH, so pretty close to yours. Do you use anything else besides the provided strap to hold in the battery?

[irjamesm]

Originally Posted by Iceberg86300

Thanks for the info and the pictures. I love your canopy, is that aftermarket or did you paint it yourself?

Also, I noticed you have the logictech setup. I had the sam until a masive boom strike, after that the servo would only travel slowly in one direction. I really liked that servo

So don't add boom strikes to your skill set

Oh, and my pack dimensions are 32*113*26 WxLxH, so pretty close to yours. Do you use anything else besides the provided strap to hold in the battery?

Iceberg, thats all i've used is the velcro strap that came with it, along with velcro on the battery, and the underside of the frame.It holds fine.

James

[Vechlor]

I air brushed the canopy myself, it came out really good considering this was my first. There's some tips on how I did it from my blog if you want to know more. The link is in my signature.

I have the second gen logictech 2100t gyro and servo combo, I herd there's a new black version, but I'm not sure what has changed with it. I would probably pick up the new one if anything happens this one...

Besides the velcro strap, I use a piece of 50x30mm velcro tape on all my batteries and underneath where my Rx sits. Because of the ridges underneath, the battery doesn't sit flat, so I used pieces of double sided tape to fill the gap and to help hold the velcro tape in place.

[blvdbuzzard]

Here are a couple of pics of mine. I use the velcro strap and so far it has not failed. I have not done fast enough piro's to get it to slide forward.

You can see I have the Rx in front on top of the battery, the battery under the front, ESC is in the back out in the air. Gyro on top and servo towards the front of the boom.

With the reports of the ESC getting hot I cut the shrink wrap off and made sure it out in the wind.

Have you guys looked at the packages that Heliproz south has put together?
http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/mer...egory_Code=PKG

There is also a RDS8000 / Cypher package from Hobby People. It does not link correctly. DO search for "CYPHER" and on the last page is the Cypher and RDS8000 for $364.78. Wonder what teh sale price will be?

I have been pricing paint and a new canaopy to abuse. Looks liek it will be around $50.00 for everything. I may get around to painting one for myself.


Dru.

[irjamesm]

Hey, where is everybody??

James

[irjamesm]

I posted my first video on youtube. Lets see if i can post it

EF Cypher (2 min 17 sec)

[heli-c]

Originally Posted by irjamesm

Hey, where is everybody??

James

Hey James,

'Got laid off end of February and have since become self-employed...so now I'm working twice as hard for the same, or less $$$! Making time for this beautiful hobby as often as I can - things should start to settle down in a few weeks or so...then I'll be back more regularly

Thanks for posting the vid - your tracking is tight bro

[maddog57]

James... nice vid! Your tail looks nice and solid. Logictrc gyro? My hovering is like yours, getting better, but still doing the ol' bob-n-weave . Good job, keep practicing!
Chris

[irjamesm]

Originally Posted by heli-c

Hey James,

'Got laid off end of February and have since become self-employed...so now I'm working twice as hard for the same, or less $$$! Making time for this beautiful hobby as often as I can - things should start to settle down in a few weeks or so...then I'll be back more regularly

Thanks for posting the vid - your tracking is tight bro

You know what, i got laid off at the end of february also, how weird is that? I'm not workind yet, been looking

Thanks

[irjamesm]

Originally Posted by maddog57

James... nice vid! Your tail looks nice and solid. Logictrc gyro? My hovering is like yours, getting better, but still doing the ol' bob-n-weave . Good job, keep practicing!
Chris

Thanks, No, i'm using the Futaba GY401 gyro.That was a couple months ago, and kinda hard to try and keep in front of the camera i set on the tailgate of my truck.
that is the first video i put on youtube, Then was'nt sure if it would show in the post .But it did !!!! Kinda cool, i think we should post some more pictures/videos.
What you guys think?

[Ah Clem]

I flew the Cypher around last Friday morning (six flights).

I am still tuning and trimming. It is quite fast in forward flight. It did tend to pitch down slightly in Fast Forward Flight. All in all, it was nice and quick, but did not feel quite right (like I said, I am still adjusting it).

I did change to a slightly longer flybar and slightly larger paddles (more area and slightly heavier) for next time, so we will see what that will do.

It has no problems with power at all. The tail holds quite well. Roll rate is good, as is flip rate.