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600 PRO Class Electric Helicopters 600 PRO Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar. |
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05-19-2013, 08:05 AM | #1 (permalink) |
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Very weird collective issues
Hello everyone
Since fixing my 600 pro from a crash due to stripped tail gears, I havent been able to get a good flight in. After fixing my tail issues with a new RJX HV servo, I have another very weird issue. After 2,5 or so minutes in the flight, the heli will start to lose pitch. To make myself more clear, it seems like the heli is reducing my Pitch range and the heli has bearly any pitch to do a very slow climbout. If I flip it inverted it is a little better but still it is like I am using tons of expo and 50% dual rates on my pitch, which is not the case. It is also more weird that the heli will fly fine and have great pitch for the first minutes of the flight. I ve been searching for this issue around the forums for an hour now but have found nothing like my issue. I should also mention that since the minor crash I am running my DS610 and RJX tail servo on 8V directly from my reciever battery (since so many people do it with great success). On the bench, I cant reproduce any kind of pitch loss. My setup is stock Castle 80HV with the 600MX motor, brand new Haiyin Batteries and BeastX. Castle logs dont indicate any power loss and motor is pulling great power. Anyone else ever seen such an issue? Where should I look for next?
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
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05-19-2013, 08:19 AM | #2 (permalink) |
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Could your RX battery be getting weak and not putting out the power the servos need to go full collective? Just a thought. If any of your local buddies have a similar battery try it and see if that fixes your problem.
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05-19-2013, 08:26 AM | #3 (permalink) |
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Here is also my Castle Log from the last flight of the day if anyone can take a look. Do you really think it is a Reciever power issue? Wouldnt the reciever give me brownouts and blinking lights? I will try to pull my multimeter out and see if I can stress test it on the bench. It is an AR7200BX by the way.
Thanks EDIT: Now added the log, didnt upload the first time...
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X Last edited by Heli.Maniac; 05-19-2013 at 11:16 AM.. |
05-19-2013, 11:38 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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610 servos overheating, direct 2S is too much voltage for them.
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05-19-2013, 12:27 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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Yep, the DS610 is only rated for 6.0v max. You just might be cookin'em.
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05-19-2013, 12:59 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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+1
8V on 6V is a little outside spec. That might be a heat problem. Put them on 6V for a test (put 2-3 diodes 10Amp in series with the power lead to the servos) |
05-19-2013, 01:01 PM | #7 (permalink) |
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Get 3 more RJX servos for the cyclic.
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"It's not just a hobby... it's a lifestyle" - Pete ϟ MINNESOTA! Goblin 500 + 700 / SK540 / Jives / DX8 / Quantum / RJX servos / 306b / Deep cycles |
05-19-2013, 07:05 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Run a 6.6v life. Guys above probably got it correct heat issue.
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05-19-2013, 07:33 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Yep- LiFe. I've heard of folks running 610s on 2S LiPo, but I never would. Been running my 600 on 2S LiFe for a year, and the servos love it. Simple change to try...
OTOH, it's odd that all servos appear to be affected simultaneously... I would expect your cyclic to get very erratic as one servo starts to complain about heat while the other two are slugging it out and hanging in there. I'd look at the health of your battery, as well as the way you wire this battery to your RX. Are you just running one connector to the RX? Could be over drawing the power wire and as it heats up the resistance goes up.
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Blade 130X- My cul-del-sac flyer. Blade 450X w/MSH Brain - My Ferrari T-Rex 600 EFL Pro w/SK-720 BE, KDE600XF & SK-GPS - My BMW T-Rex 700 HV DFC w/VBar, Kosmik 200 & KDE700XF - My muscle heli |
05-20-2013, 06:19 AM | #10 (permalink) |
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Ok so now that everyone says it is the high voltage to blame, I reverted back to the Align regulator, but also made an adaptor so that I can use the RJX servo at 8V directly from 2S lipo and only the cyclic and Beastx are now powered by the Align regulator. I also soldered new silicone wire with EC3 to the reg as well as remove the tiny switch just to be safe.
I am using a nanotech 2000mah reciever pack (the one with the 20awg wire) which has already 150+ flights on it and is slightly puffed, but as low as the voltage dropped, it would still be at the 7V range, so still plenty of power to the servos. Maybe there is a current bottleneck on the 1 servo lead, but now that the tail servo is not powered by the BeastX, it should be enough for the DS610s. Also important is that yesterday was a very hot day, close to 95 degrees so the overheating may be the cause. Lets hope I didnt damage my servos.
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
05-22-2013, 10:42 AM | #11 (permalink) |
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Well tested it today at 6V and still the same thing. Heli flies fine and with tons of pitch but towards the end of the 3rd minute it doesnt have pitch to do a fast pitch climbout. Hell I was exiting a hurricane fast today and when I went to stop it it didnt want to stop and felt very soft, skids almost touched the ground. On the second flight beginning is all fine and after just 1 minute in flight I send it a little far and was trying to bring it back but guess what, heli didnt have enough positive pitch again to fight the wind. Brought it back on the table and increased my positive pitch a notch, test flew again only this time the bird had a lot more lift but same loss of pitch after a minute. What else can it be? After the flights I checked the temps of everything, motor was very warm (normal for the MX), esc warm to very warm, the two front servos were warm probably because of the motor heat and the elevator one not even warm, even the align regulator cable that powers the electronics was not warm. Also tried rebinding and didnt fix anything.
One quick thought I have is that the one-way may be slipping but I dont hear any weird sound and motor sound is also normal. Any other ideas anyone? I am almost ready to go with the RJX servos on the cyclic but not sure if it is the servos yet.... Also added my log from the first flight just for referance. Thanks
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
05-22-2013, 02:06 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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Re: Very weird collective issues
I think you nailed it.. either your pinion or your one way bearing is slipping. You won't necessarily hear anything... but this sounds exactly like slippage occurring somewhere.
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05-22-2013, 02:52 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Alright then I will just go get a new one way, but a quick question first. Is it worth it to get the bearing alone and replace the old one myself or am I just better off buying the whole main gear case? Also what is everyone using for lube on it? Will synthetic Triflow do the trick or is some heavy oil more preferred?
Thanks
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
05-22-2013, 03:14 PM | #14 (permalink) |
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You mentioned you had a crash. Did you happen to rebuild the head?
Or did you check it out for anything broken inside? If you did you could have not put it together right. I had the same problem once and couldn't figure out what was wrong cause it worked fine on the bench. I happen to put the thrust bearings in wrong sequence. And the problem wouldn't show until it was in the air. It was weird because it would not do it in the beginning and when it would do it it was like a delayed reaction to my inputs. Just sounds like a lot the same problem I had.
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05-22-2013, 04:06 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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Απ: Very weird collective issues
The crash was minor but I disassembled the spindle anyways. Nothing extraordinary there, just replaced the dampeners because they were worn out. I am pretty sure I did it right but will check again tomorrow along with pulling the main gear to check the owb. Wouldnt the servos get warmer because the head would bind?
I really hope it is the owb because I really want to return to my HV setup
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
05-23-2013, 02:35 AM | #16 (permalink) |
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Re: Very weird collective issues
Try disabling your governor and using throttle curves see if you can replicate the issue
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
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05-23-2013, 05:52 AM | #17 (permalink) |
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could be a slipping owb or something of that nature
but also you said you made an adapter to feed the 1 servo more power I dont know how you did it but if you dont isolate it from the rest it will back feed power to the other servos as well, which would put you right back in the same spot this is why most people got all hv servos you can isolate the voltage on the hv servo simply by removing the red wire from the servo plug of the HV servo, it then will need a power (+) line ran from the battery pack to it. Ground will still work fine as is
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05-23-2013, 08:21 AM | #18 (permalink) |
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I just finished checking the head and holly crap, the bearings are a mess. The radial bearings are very rocky and the thrust bearings melted I cant understand why really, I am sure I put the thrusts in correctly. Probably didnt really check the bearings in the head whe I rebuilt from the crash and that probably why it does what it does. Additionally I removed the main gear and after a cleaning of the OWB grease and the one way shaft, I could get it to slip even with a ton of force I put to it. Also didnt notice any scratch or bad signs on the shaft so I am not going to replace it.
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
05-24-2013, 12:13 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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Απ: Very weird collective issues
I am very happy to anounce that the problem is finally gone. Swapping all head bearings did the trick, no more collective issues and no more wobbles on fast cyclic stops. Just a last question, why do I need new thrust bearings every 40 or so flights? I pack them well with grease and the grips are not notchy or binding. I also put them in the right way with big ID towards the hub, then the bearing with the open side towards the hub and finally the small ID washer.
Thanks for the help and tips
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Andreas M. Compass 7HVU Logo 600SX V2 Blade 450X |
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beastx, pitch loss |
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