Co-Pilot II - How To, Made Simple!

[philippets]

Originally Posted by Tim Marks

Hi:

When you get the message "AIL/ELEV sticks not centered" all it means is that you changed your trims since setup was completed or since you performed the "center now" routine. This is normal and in most cases, you can ignore the message. CPII only needs to know precise center information to make Stick Priority exactly linear on both sides of stick travel. If the center uS changes slightly, it means that going, e.g., right stick, you might have to push the stick a little further out to turn the CPII gain down as much as it did before the trims were changed. In practical application, you will probably never even notice this unless your trims changed severely. It has nothing to do with what the CPII sees as "level", or how quickly it will return to center, etc.



Tim Marks

Thank you guys for your help.
Things are slowly making sense, one more thing though.
My trim settings on the transmitter while in OFF mode is quite different from the trim in CPII ON mode.
So, when I land in CP II ON mode with the trim set for hover and power off the heli and then restart it in the OFF mode, do I have to reset the trim sliders to where they were before the change ? Will CPII remember the correct trim settings when turned back ON ?

[Tim Marks]

Originally Posted by philippets

Thank you guys for your help.
Things are slowly making sense, one more thing though.
My trim settings on the transmitter while in OFF mode is quite different from the trim in CPII ON mode.
So, when I land in CP II ON mode with the trim set for hover and power off the heli and then restart it in the OFF mode, do I have to reset the trim sliders to where they were before the change ? Will CPII remember the correct trim settings when turned back ON ?

Hi:

I think you might want to visit the CPII FAQ section at FMA Direct at the following URL:

http://www.fmadirect.com/faqs.htm?category=51

For your convenience, I have posted the FAQ pertinent to your questions as follows:

What is the difference between Auto Trim and Set Angles menus and what is a good strategy for trimming the model with CPII installed?

1) Auto trim is expressed in degrees. Default value is 6 degrees. If using Auto trim, trim the model out with CPII switched OFF. Then turn CPII ON and re-trim the model again for level flight. When you turn CPII OFF again, trim should not change. If it does, increase the Auto trim value. If it still does not hold same trim with CPII ON vs. OFF, then you will need to either alter the install angle of the main sensor (tilt it slightly), or use set angles to trim CPII.

2) What Auto trim does is maintain CPII slightly ON even when it is switched OFF. That's why we term it for beginners. Advanced pilots sometimes do not like the fact that CPII has any control over the heli when it is switched OFF.

3) If you want CPII to have no control over the heli when switched OFF, then turn Auto trim to zero.

4) Now you will need to trim CPII for level flight when it is ON independently of when it is OFF. Some people tilt the main sensor to achieve level flight in this case. Some people use the Set Angles menus. Both methods achieve the same results. One does it mechanically, the other does it electrically.

5) Auto trim and Set Angles do similar things. They can be used independently or in conjunction. It's all just a way of adjusting the trim of the model. The difference is, Auto Trim will affect level even with CPII OFF. Set Angles only applies when CPII is ON.

6) The IR "cones", or viewing angles are 120 degress in diameter. If you block a portion of the cone with other installed components, it may affect the trim of the model. It's usually not possible to get 100% clear view of sensors. So compensating using higher Auto Trim value, or Set Angles is appropriate. If the sensor view is blocked by a component that could emit heat in varying degrees (like a muffler, or a black fin that could be heated up by the sun, or a digital servo that heats up as you fly), then it will be more difficult to achieve proper trim because the trim could change continually.

Tim Marks

[plux79]

What is the difference between Auto Trim and Set Angles menus and what is a good strategy for trimming the model with CPII installed? 1) Auto trim is expressed in degrees. Default value is 6 degrees. If using Auto trim, trim the model out with CPII switched OFF. Then turn CPII ON and re-trim the model again for level flight. When you turn CPII OFF again, trim should not change. If it does, increase the Auto trim value. If it still does not hold same trim with CPII ON vs. OFF, then you will need to either alter the install angle of the main sensor (tilt it slightly), or use set angles to trim CPII.

2) What Auto trim does is maintain CPII slightly ON even when it is switched OFF. That's why we term it for beginners. Advanced pilots sometimes do not like the fact that CPII has any control over the heli when it is switched OFF.

3) If you want CPII to have no control over the heli when switched OFF, then turn Auto trim to zero.

4) Now you will need to trim CPII for level flight when it is ON independently of when it is OFF. Some people tilt the main sensor to achieve level flight in this case. Some people use the Set Angles menus. Both methods achieve the same results. One does it mechanically, the other does it electrically.

5) Auto trim and Set Angles do similar things. They can be used independently or in conjunction. It's all just a way of adjusting the trim of the model. The difference is, Auto Trim will affect level even with CPII OFF. Set Angles only applies when CPII is ON.

6) The IR "cones", or viewing angles are 120 degress in diameter. If you block a portion of the cone with other installed components, it may affect the trim of the model. It's usually not possible to get 100% clear view of sensors. So compensating using higher Auto Trim value, or Set Angles is appropriate. If the sensor view is blocked by a component that could emit heat in varying degrees (like a muffler, or a black fin that could be heated up by the sun, or a digital servo that heats up as you fly), then it will be more difficult to achieve proper trim because the trim could change continually.

I got few questions. I had installed the CPII according to this thread. I test flown it a few days ago and noticed that during tail in hovering, the heli tends to move backward. Before the CPII is installed, I had setup according to Finless videos and had hovered about 20-30 packs of batteries and never noticed this before. Is this because of the sensor or the flying site? I test hover with CPII at a small yard with some tall grass around. Should I test hover at a large soccer field (of course when there is nobody nearby)?

Also, when it is said to trim the model on the above quote, does it mean to trim the heli from the Tx?

Thank you in advance for being so patient at this noob.

[tigerjim]

Normally my receiver got its power from the esc but since you dont use it I have no power to the receiver.. what now. I have a co pilot 2, and I have no green light on my receiver and the IRnet programmer can't locate the
router

[Woody_99]

Originally Posted by tigerjim

Normally my receiver got its power from the esc but since you dont use it I have no power to the receiver.. what now

The receiver still is powered by the esc, just like before. The CPI gets its power from the receiver via the servo connections.

[Woody_99]

Originally Posted by plux79

I got few questions. I had installed the CPII according to this thread. I test flown it a few days ago and noticed that during tail in hovering, the heli tends to move backward. Before the CPII is installed, I had setup according to Finless videos and had hovered about 20-30 packs of batteries and never noticed this before. Is this because of the sensor or the flying site? I test hover with CPII at a small yard with some tall grass around. Should I test hover at a large soccer field (of course when there is nobody nearby)?

Also, when it is said to trim the model on the above quote, does it mean to trim the heli from the Tx?

Thank you in advance for being so patient at this noob.

Here's what I put in your other post about this:

Originally Posted by Woody_99

From my experiance, no you don't need to set sub trims to zero.

Double check the levelness of the horizontal sensor with respect to the heli frame.
It's OK to adjust the angles to stop the drift too, which can make up for a slightly off horizontal sensor.

Hope this helps.

[Trooper]

Have a look at this thread - post #9 for a wiring diagram for Spectrum.
It will use ch 3 for Futaba.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=206754

Ian

[TeeJayShelton]

My first co-pilot 2 arrived last week but I have yet to get the time to put it on... I hope to put it on later this week before the weekend... if not I will def get it on next week as the wife and kids are gone all week....

[Digger66]

First I'd like to thank you all on an excellent thread regarding the installation of the copilot-2. Mine is now installed, and am trying to set it all up. Now the only problem I am having is with the on/off setting for the DX6i Tx. To quote dyuen888;

"I having a hard time finding that menu setting:

I have DX6i and I can't seem to find the option to change the gear switch assignment. I have created a new model and the Model type is HELI...

The only option I see under the Gyro menu for SW are: GYRO, INH, and F. MODE
I may have an older TX model"

The only only way i can see this to work, and I'm guessing here is to use the f-mode in the gyro menu and set 0 to 0% and 1 to 100%, so that when the switch is in 0 the cp2 would be off and in 1 the cp2 would be on. Am I correct here? Can anyone with a DX6i chime in on this?
Thanx Stan

[Woody_99]

Originally Posted by Digger66

First I'd like to thank you all on an excellent thread regarding the installation of the copilot-2. Mine is now installed, and am trying to set it all up. Now the only problem I am having is with the on/off setting for the DX6i Tx. To quote dyuen888;

"I having a hard time finding that menu setting:

I have DX6i and I can't seem to find the option to change the gear switch assignment. I have created a new model and the Model type is HELI...

The only option I see under the Gyro menu for SW are: GYRO, INH, and F. MODE
I may have an older TX model"

Thanx Stan

I think you need to go to the setup screen on the DX6i that has the option of Gear>Gyro. You can change that to be Gear>Gear. Then adjust your end point adjustments in the servo screens on the TX, for gear, to the values you want.

From Nightflyers info at the begining of this thread:



Now if you have a 6 channel receiver and would like the option of turning the CPII On and Off here's how you do it ..

1) Locate your gyro gain lead (single wire out of your gyro) on your receiver( should be the gear port of your receiver) and remove it.

2) Insert the gain lead into SVO4 slot of the CPII computer ( the wire should be at the bottom when plugging in.
3) Find the On/Off lead out of the CPII computer and plug that back into the port you removed the gain lead from the receiver

Now you need to go into your radio and change the gear/gyro setup..for DX6i set gear to gear and set the end points to +100% / - 100%

Now the GEAR switch will turn the CPII on and off once programmed in quick setup, and you will also set your gain through the 4th channel of the CPII, this will be during the Quick setup..and the gain you input is 'ACTUAL" gain somewhere between 25%- 37% is a good range to work in.


The only only way i can see this to work, and I'm guessing here is to use the f-mode in the gyro menu and set 0 to 0% and 1 to 100%, so that when the switch is in 0 the cp2 would be off and in 1 the cp2 would be on. Am I correct here? Can anyone with a DX6i chime in on this?

[TeeJayShelton]

I wasn't expecting it to do very well where I did my maiden flight with it.... It was pretty dark and I did it behind a shopping center near my house very close to the buildings... It performed all but flawlessly right off the bat I need to play with it away from the buildings to trim it up but it was great and fast to level it out...I even lost sight of it in the dark backed off it slowly and it landed level!!! I could barely see it....Couldn't see its attitude or orientation at all.
Once I get it dialed in I will have to pit it against Fly mentor for recovery time but at first glance I think its going to win.... Thanks for everyone who chimed in with their positive experiences with it... .. it help convince me to buy it and I am very glad I did.

[Digger66]

Unfortunately, there is no gear/gyro type setup on the dx6i, I wonder if that is in the old dx6? I guess I'll hook the gyro lead back to the reciever until I figure this one out. Anyways, I am having issues with the tail since I replaced it and have to sort them out now!!!

[teb1963]

Originally Posted by Digger66

Unfortunately, there is no gear/gyro type setup on the dx6i, I wonder if that is in the old dx6? I guess I'll hook the gyro lead back to the reciever until I figure this one out. Anyways, I am having issues with the tail since I replaced it and have to sort them out now!!!

Hi Digger,
I had the DX6i when I first got co-pilot, take a look at this thread, it worked for me.
https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=196028
Terry

[Digger66]

Hey Terry, that was exactly what I needed thanks for the link! Now to get my stubby little fingers back in there to undo the wiring again!

[teb1963]

Your welcome Digger, Lucky for you I never noticed where you were from. The way you guys kicked our asses in the football game on Saturday, I may have kept my mouth shut. Just Kidding, glad I could help. LOL, Oh yeah, Go RIDERS!!!

[PaulsATOM]

Hi Nightflyr,
I am a noob here. I have a Compass 500 with CPll. I have been reading this post with great interest. Thank you for all the info here. I do have one request or I should say question. You mentioned oscillation, I think that is what I'm having trouble with. I thought it was tail bob and increased my head speed to 100 % as someone suggested. Then someone suggested turn my gains down on the CPII using the IR controller. I get oscillation or tail bob when hovering and wind or just input some of the time. What can I do to fix this problem. Any help would be great. Please and Thank you.

Paul

[Woody_99]

Originally Posted by PaulsATOM

Hi Nightflyr,
I am a noob here. I have a Compass 500 with CPll. I have been reading this post with great interest. Thank you for all the info here. I do have one request or I should say question. You mentioned oscillation, I think that is what I'm having trouble with. I thought it was tail bob and increased my head speed to 100 % as someone suggested. Then someone suggested turn my gains down on the CPII using the IR controller. I get oscillation or tail bob when hovering and wind or just input some of the time. What can I do to fix this problem. Any help would be great. Please and Thank you.

Paul

You're on the right track. Turn the pitch gain down a little more. I think mine is 10 less than the default for pitch gain.
If it's not too bad, don't worry about it. I think sometimes they just "seek" a little bit under certain conditions.

[Joey.S]

Hey Guys,

I have read that people are saying that when the co pilot is turned on the heli levels out and stops in a hover or very close to a hover. The problem i'm having is when i turn the co pilot on it doe's level the heli instantly but the heli keeps on going in the same direction it was going in when i turned the co pilot on, it does not matter which direction it was going it slows down very little but keeps on going.

I have hovered the heli and then turned the co pilot on and it stays pretty stable very very slight drift to the left but no big deal. I have tried gains from 40 up 90% it made no difference, the flight mode is set to level flight,i'v tried it with auto gain from 7 to 0(off) and it still does the same thing.

What i want is for the heli to slow down so i can take control because even if it levels off it's still moving fast it's not much help. I just wish I could get the co pilot to almost stop the heli. Does anyone have any ideas to what may be causing this??

The co pilot is installed on a Trex 450 Sport with DS 760 gyro and i'm using a JR11x to turn the co pilot on and off.

Thanks
Joe

[Woody_99]

Originally Posted by Joey.S

Hey Guys,

I have read that people are saying that when the co pilot is turned on the heli levels out and stops in a hover or very close to a hover. The problem i'm having is when i turn the co pilot on it doe's level the heli instantly but the heli keeps on going in the same direction it was going in when i turned the co pilot on, it does not matter which direction it was going it slows down very little but keeps on going.

I have hovered the heli and then turned the co pilot on and it stays pretty stable very very slight drift to the left but no big deal. I have tried gains from 40 up 90% it made no difference, the flight mode is set to level flight,i'v tried it with auto gain from 7 to 0(off) and it still does the same thing.

What i want is for the heli to slow down so i can take control because even if it levels off it's still moving fast it's not much help. I just wish I could get the co pilot to almost stop the heli. Does anyone have any ideas to what may be causing this??

The co pilot is installed on a Trex 450 Sport with DS 760 gyro and i'm using a JR11x to turn the co pilot on and off.

Thanks
Joe

The CPII isn't going to stop any forward momentum the helicopter has built up.

As you experienced, it will certainly flatten out and stabilize the heli to horizontal, but it won't control the cyclic servos to stop any forward, backward or side to side motion.

If your heli is moving forward and you center the right stick, you can be pretty confident the helicopter is now level.
You will have to pull back on the stick for a moment to reverse the momentum and then center again to be horizontal.
Practice with it in an open area, with a few feet of altitude, and you'll get the hang of it.
Kind of like a car sliding on ice, you'll have to do something to change the direction its moving. (ok, not a great comparison but all I have at the moment)

[Joey.S]

Thanks for the reply Woody,

Ok so then everything is working as it should it's just that I hear guys saying they let go of the stick or turn co pilot on and the heli just stops in it's tracks, I guess not. I will just have to get use to it like you said.

Thanks
Joe