Unofficial Blade mSR Troubleshooting Guide!

[Madmac]

Hello all, I'm a newbie to the RC heli gig (used to have a nitro boat). I picked up a
used mSR a week ago and have flown it a few times without breaking anything. Now
the LVCO light flashes within 30 seconds of takeoff. I bought 2 new Tenergy batteries (which require a crowbar to force them into the battery tray) and they do the same thing. I've checked voltage b4 & after flight and it's about 4.1VDC. Any suggestions?

Thanks

[bmwgofast]

Mine shuts down mid flight, everything is good but the 5 in 1 turns on and off when I move it back and forth. I have resoldered the bat conections servo connections and motor conections. I am down to buying a new 5 in 1 Any help out there Thanks Doug

[Number1BSArtist]

Originally Posted by Madmac

Hello all, I'm a newbie to the RC heli gig (used to have a nitro boat). I picked up a
used mSR a week ago and have flown it a few times without breaking anything. Now
the LVCO light flashes within 30 seconds of takeoff. I bought 2 new Tenergy batteries (which require a crowbar to force them into the battery tray) and they do the same thing. I've checked voltage b4 & after flight and it's about 4.1VDC. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Originally Posted by bmwgofast

Mine shuts down mid flight, everything is good but the 5 in 1 turns on and off when I move it back and forth. I have resoldered the bat conections servo connections and motor conections. I am down to buying a new 5 in 1 Any help out there Thanks Doug

Gentlemen,

If you search the threads, you'll find more information on this.

But basically, It's one of three things. (Four, but you've eliminated uncharged battery as a possibility)

1. The tail-motor is going out. - Most likely

2. The main-motor is going out.

3. The 5in1 board is going out. - Worst Case

If you have spares it would help troubleshooting, and then you have the part on hand as well if it does turn out to be the issue.

Troubleshooting this is a process of elimination. Start with swaping out the tail-motor for a fresh one, because it's the most likely coulprit.

If the problem persist, then you can go back to your original tail-motor. Next try swaping out the main motor.

At this point if the problem still exist, then you may be in the situation of having to send your 5in1 board in. Which would be unfortunate. However...

If the worse case scenerio does occur. You can rest easy that E-Flite and Horizon have been outstanding in their actions to replace any 5in1 boards that have gone out for one reason or another. It's been discussed here in the forums a few times about their great customer service.

So buy a new 5in1 if you have the expendable funds and want to be a good sport to Horizon, which I've done.

But know that you don't necessarily have to buy a new 5in1 board if you already have one. Just give a call to customer service and have a talk with one of their techs before sending them anything. They will give you a tracking number to send in with your item.

Good luck.

[nielsm]

Originally Posted by Madmac

Hello all, I'm a newbie to the RC heli gig (used to have a nitro boat). I picked up a
used mSR a week ago and have flown it a few times without breaking anything. Now
the LVCO light flashes within 30 seconds of takeoff. I bought 2 new Tenergy batteries (which require a crowbar to force them into the battery tray) and they do the same thing. I've checked voltage b4 & after flight and it's about 4.1VDC. Any suggestions?

Thanks

As others have noted, it is possible you have a bad tail or main motor. Also check to ensure that nothing is binding on either the main or tail rotors. If either had something sticking they could significantly reduce your runtime. A quick flick of either rotor with your finger should result in several rotations. If you find it hard to turn either rotor, see if you can locate what is causing the binding.

[jorgy23]

Anyone have a problem with the tail not holding on acceleration? I had a pretty bad crash last night, I did what I thought was a thorough inspection but since than the little heli will fly just fine as long as I keep it low on the throttle, anything over half throttle and it will start rotating nose left, I have replaced the tail motor, the fly bar and even the main motor thinking that was the problem to no love. Any ideas?

[adroc3905]

Originally Posted by jorgy23

Anyone have a problem with the tail not holding on acceleration? I had a pretty bad crash last night, I did what I thought was a thorough inspection but since than the little heli will fly just fine as long as I keep it low on the throttle, anything over half throttle and it will start rotating nose left, I have replaced the tail motor, the fly bar and even the main motor thinking that was the problem to no love. Any ideas?

When you replaced the tail motor did you replace the tail rotor also?

My MSR tail was always hunting for center. During forward flight and hover the tail would move R to L in a rapid motion. I realized it was a combination of two things:

1. My tail rotor blades had too much pitch in them. I slowly twisted one tail blade to reduce the blade curve. Do this in small amounts as you only need a little tweak and not a huge twist. What this did was stop the tail from hunting for center (allowed the rate gyro to maintain tail with main blade CCW force) and also reduced the annoying "mosquito noise" made by the tail motor which seems to get louder as pitch increases.

2. Another tail fix was to align my tail rotor shaft perpendicular with the main shaft. Now many people will look from the back of the heli and see the tail fin is straight to the middle of the skids so they assume the tail motor shaft is perpendicular. This is not a good way to indicate true 90 degrees from main shaft. If you have noticed, the MSR main shaft is cocked to the left side of the frame when viewing from the tail. It is designed this way for a reason, which is off topic. This means that the tail rotor shaft should also reflect this angle to be a true 90. If you have it right, the tail motor and rotor blades, will be cocked slightly downwards to the right side of the heli when viewing from behind. Your tail rotor blades will then follow the same angle as the main shaft when vertical. Keep in mind that the tail boom is not glued in so during a crash the boom can twist and change this angle.

Hope that was helpful

[jorgy23]

Originally Posted by adroc3905

When you replaced the tail motor did you replace the tail rotor also?

My MSR tail was always hunting for center. During forward flight and hover the tail would move R to L in a rapid motion. I realized it was a combination of two things:

1. My tail rotor blades had too much pitch in them. I slowly twisted one tail blade to reduce the blade curve. Do this in small amounts as you only need a little tweak and not a huge twist. What this did was stop the tail from hunting for center (allowed the rate gyro to maintain tail with main blade CCW force) and also reduced the annoying "mosquito noise" made by the tail motor which seems to get louder as pitch increases.

2. Another tail fix was to align my tail rotor shaft perpendicular with the main shaft. Now many people will look from the back of the heli and see the tail fin is straight to the middle of the skids so they assume the tail motor shaft is perpendicular. This is not a good way to indicate true 90 degrees from main shaft. If you have noticed, the MSR main shaft is cocked to the left side of the frame when viewing from the tail. It is designed this way for a reason, which is off topic. This means that the tail rotor shaft should also reflect this angle to be a true 90. If you have it right, the tail motor and rotor blades, will be cocked slightly downwards to the right side of the heli when viewing from behind. Your tail rotor blades will then follow the same angle as the main shaft when vertical. Keep in mind that the tail boom is not glued in so during a crash the boom can twist and change this angle.

Hope that was helpful

A wealth of information unfortunately it has actually gotten worse. I'm starting to think that my 5 in1 has taken a dump. cuz at last try the damn thing was near impossible to keep in the air. I'll play around with it a little bit more tonight but after that I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. try and get a replacement from e-flite or just accept the fact that one of my crashes took it out.

[DarkHorse]

You might find that the tail rotor requires twisting for extra pitch as mine has done on a few occasions. The extra noise was my tail motor/rotor at max RPM without enough tail rotor pitch to properly hold the tail firm (normally the case). Give both tail blades a serious tweak and twist to increase pitch equally, restoring soft tail/gyro response (cell and motor strength permitting).

[adroc3905]

I tried to search for it but was not successful. Does anyone know what the MSR tail rotor pitch degree is? I know when you get into the larger CP helis (E-flight CPP2) with a direct drive tail (just like the MSR) you can purchase different props through aftermarket manufacturers. For example 30/30 or 30/45 are different prop sizes. This would give the tail motor more or less authority depending on what the gain is preprogrammed in the 5-in-1.

Basically what my thoughts are, if there is possibly a better tail rotor for the MSR than the stock E-flight ones provided? By twisting the props from hand, you essentially are achieving the prefect angle and a more solid tail. Depending on what stock E-flight tail blades I run, I get different tail results. Some better than others. I doubt the tolerance for making these blades is precise so some of us get good ones and others get warped ones direct from the package. If we know the prop angle then the ability to shop for different brands that may perform better are open.

[hydro_pyro]

WTF? Do you guys seriously think they didn't take these things into consideration when they designed it?? You don't think they experimented with diameter and pitch during the design phase? Taller pitches have more drag and slip. If you increase the pitch, you reduce the top end RPM, and increase current draw throughout the range, this puts more wear on the motor and the driver FET. The tail may hold a tiny bit better with more pitch, but the shorter motor life is likely the factor that limits this...

[liftdump]

LOL
I brought mine home, charged it and have been flying it ever since. Over a hundred flights. Never done a thing......just fly!

[jedi391]

My MSR is giving me some problems aswell. It started out that the motors (both) would lose power momentarily (ehough to lose a foot or two of altitude) while it was in flight. Eventually it just died all together and even the cyclic servos no longer responded and eventually it wouldn't bind at all. I gave it a couple of days and tried it without the tail motor plugged in and it bound again but the main motor by itself is cutting in and out just like before. I tried plugging the tail motor back in and it again flies while losing power to both motors momentarily just like how it started before....I'm thinking 5 in 1....but I never unplugged the main motor, I'll try that tonight...what do you guys think?

This is at pobably 175-200 flights, basically been flying it for a little under a month and a half so still pretty new.

[adroc3905]

Originally Posted by hydro_pyro

WTF? Do you guys seriously think they didn't take these things into consideration when they designed it?? You don't think they experimented with diameter and pitch during the design phase? Taller pitches have more drag and slip. If you increase the pitch, you reduce the top end RPM, and increase current draw throughout the range, this puts more wear on the motor and the driver FET. The tail may hold a tiny bit better with more pitch, but the shorter motor life is likely the factor that limits this...

If you do some research you will find that the E-Flight tail rotor blades lose pitch from fatigue and age. They are cheap plastic that can easily bend and people adjust them all the time to find what pitch works best for the internal gyro inside the 5-in-1. Do you really think that the R+D department at E-Flight decided to use high end plastic on a $150 heli? Seriously! Parts = Money. By knowing the tail blade pitch, we (the owners) can shop around for tail rotors made of BETTER material and achieve a potential greater tail hold. Also, E-Flight wants lower motor life.....so you buy faster. If they wanted you to have a long life motor then they would design a brushless version.

Additionally, when the original Blade CP Pro came out from E-Flight it had a cheap tail motor designed by the “all knowing” E-Flight R+D department. CP Pro Owners experimented with ideas and found that the N70 tail motor was far better brushed alternative. The second time around E-Flight decided to use the N70 motor on the revised Blade CP Pro 2.

So, in other words you give too much credit to a company that is solely profit driven. Owners have had just as much influence in the design of these birds as the manufacturer. If a product is around long enough, people fine tune it and find better, more functional/efficient ways that are far better from E-Flight’s original design.

I have built several helis from all different manufacturers (not E-Flight of course) in my time and if you think the manufacturer's way is the best and most efficient then you have a lot to learn in this hobby. The faster parts break, the more we spend to purchase. To design a product that never needs repair or maintenance is not what E-Flight’s mission statement is. I can assure you of that.

[hydro_pyro]

Perhaps you've got me wrong. I have possibly the most modified mSR out there, I've found all kinds of things to improve upon. I have an ear for music, I can hear when my tail rotor is bent or over-pitched because of the peak RPM change.

[fuelfan]

Just adding to the list. I had mildly wrecked it a bunch of times. The only issue I have found that is not listed is,

The plug in from the motor to 5in1 almost came unplugged it was more than half way off, I had a couple weird chicken dances with no throttle. Check your plugs are all the way in.

I went through all these fixes on my MSR. It flies great again thank you all.

The other thing I found is, I live in an efficiency. I have an air circulator that makes no noise, I have been flying in a whirlwind! Turned that off, wow this thing hovers great! Thanks again

[Pete_D]

Hey there, I am new to this forum, and to flying heli's in the first place. I have read quite a bit about a constant TBE with my MSR. I have pretty much rebuilt my MSR from the ground up with the exception of the swash. I finally have figured out what the problem is. I haven't read this anywhere so I thought it would be useful to this thread. Maybe I didn't read enough... Anyhow, the screws that hold the blade grips together, well I had them too tight so the rotor head and blades couldn't move freely. So it was stuck in one place or so it seemed and the heli actually would just crash right away. Maybe it wasn't TBE in the first place.

Anyhow, I finally have my heli back in the air but I do notice something odd. I have what seems to be a constant seesaw back and forth. Is this the flybar over correcting? As the heli is moving forward and I let off the stick it automatically goes backwards, but then it starts moving forward after that and then repeats. I notice that a small movement with the stick counter acting or a small burst of throttle corrects it. But then it does it again... Any help would be terrific! Thanks guys!

[fuelfan]

The anti rotation collar " pins " can spread apart or bend up or down causing play in cyclic system. I was able to gently bend them back in alignment and get a much smoother flying heli. https://www.helifreak.com/attachment...1&d=1254191848

Try this or. I re level the swash every time I fly it. Or bounce it. I found if I dont level the swash I will get that, or the above helps.

I pinch the little link holders together.

[Pete_D]

Originally Posted by fuelfan

Try this or. I re level the swash every time I fly it. Or bounce it. I found if I dont level the swash I will get that, or the above helps.

I pinch the little link holders together.

Fuel, do you do this before the heli is on? Just use the calibration tool? I've come to the conclusion that I have TBE now that the heli is off the ground and able to fly for a while. I just flew my dads, new out of the box and his hovers just great whereas mine is a mess all over the place and I have to fight it...

[fuelfan]

I set the swash tool in it, seat the swash then power up the heli with the tool installed. Just remember to remove the tool of course.

It seems to work fine that way. I have also after a minor hit or drop on the floor. I will leave it powered up and stick the tool in and level it real quick and go back to flying.

If I get a good blade strike or something i will pinch those link holders together. I just push them together they kind of wrap around the link and let go. I have no binding issues doing that. Seems to work. Both those things I check all the time. It's so quick.

[clammster]

I was having trouble where my turns were almost out of control. At a hover...everything was great. Start turing and it went out of wack.

Well I found that one of my flybar linkages slipped off the ball link, but it slipped off the back side so it was still attached.

Check that. World of difference make sure all you linkages are just on the tips of the connector balls.

Happy Flying

CL